to be angry about 6th form's "shoulder's must be covered" policy

[randomname7208633]

I'm a dad of 4 (just putting that out there so there's no confusion) and this morning my dd (17) told me that yesterday, which was pretty hot here (not that that should matter,) she was told by a female member of staff that she had to either wear a coat all day or go home because her top had straps which made her shoulders visible.

Nothing else was uncovered and she was in no way indecent, she was just informed that shoulders had to be covered because otherwise (I know you can see this coming) it was "distracting to boys".

Apparently quite a few other girls were given the same warning that day (probably because it was the first really warm day since they'd been back to school and had all dressed according to the weather) and then a school wide announcement was made.

I've checked the uniform policy and there's no mention of it so I've emailed the school asking for clarification.

If this is indeed a policy that's being enforced I think it's ridiculous that female students are being made to dress in ways to suit male students. If a boy is distracted by girl's shoulders then the problem is with the boy! The messages this sends out just make me smh. It's 2020 and girls are having to think about how their clothes might make boys (and by extension, men) react. Argh!!!

Our 6th form girls can wear wherever they like and the boys have to wear suit and tie whatever the weather. I think asking girls to cover shoulders is ridiculous

Can people actually read the op before posting? It's not in the school policy, he has not mentioned that there is required business attire, just because it's your school's policy doesn't mean it is at his daughters?

Draconian shit like this needs to be challenged!

No t shirts?? How do they bypass that rule when some kids have to take lessons in PE kit .... wearing it all day in school?

Ok I used the work "Professional" as I couldn't think of a better way to put it, does Smart sound any better?

Vest tops are too casual for boys or girls. There has to be a line somewhere.

If people are arguing Vest tops are ok, what about short strappy crop tops, 'active wear' style, is it ok to show off a belly too?
Are the boys ok in vest tops too? What about top less!

Vest tops are ‘too casual’?? Have a word with yourself!

On a size D, a top that will cover a size A very well will show pretty much everything.
Same as a size S t-shirt on an xl guy will show a lot of skin. I don’t neec to see either.

But that’s not a fair comparison- I’m assuming both girls bought the same too in the right size. If the size D girl wore a top 3 sixes too small, that would be equivalent to your example about boys but in the case it would be the size of the top rather than its style.

Even from this thread the concept of “business attire” means different things in different workplaces. Some allow bare shoulders and some don’t, clearly companies that don’t will have that codified somewhere so new employees know what’s acceptable. This wasn’t written into school policy.

In any case I’ve no idea why 17/18 year olds need to look professional in school - it makes no difference to their ability, school isn’t a “professional” setting and many of those pupils won’t go on to wear a business suit every day. Utter nonsense.

I think some of this comes from whether posters think it's "school". It's not, in my area. The high schools stop at 16 and you go to college.

In any case I’ve no idea why 17/18 year olds need to look professional in school - it makes no difference to their ability, school isn’t a “professional” setting and many of those pupils won’t go on to wear a business suit every day. Utter nonsense.

Is it not meant to be preparing them for the world of work?

It's total bollocks that most 'high powered professional environments' think that Bermuda shorts and flip flops are suitable office attire. Most don't like spaghetti straps either.

But why on earth is it appropriate for 16-18 yr olds to dress like people in high powered professional environments? They might just as well dress as scuba divers or clowns, it's such a weird idea.

[quote pjmask]@emptydreamer

I just find it such an antiquated view, and it seems to apply predominantly to women for some reason

Couldn't agree more[/quote]
It tends to apply predominantly to women, because women are expected to dress in order to manage the behaviour of men. Which is basically a load of sexist misogynistic twaddle. This is where the "distracting to the boys" crap comes from.

Boys should be taught from the start that their behaviour is their own responsibility, and we should not be expecting girls to dress so boys can avoid being resposible for their behaviour.

If people are arguing Vest tops are ok, what about short strappy crop tops, 'active wear' style, is it ok to show off a belly too?
Are the boys ok in vest tops too? What about top less!

But that’s about dressing for the occasion - belly tops, active wear etc aren’t clothes you’d generally wear in most workplaces, I have a number of smart vest tops and scrappy tops that I’d happily wear to work if the weather called for it. They aren’t casual by any means, but wouldn’t be permitted by this school. I wouldn’t wear a belly top of gym clothes because I’m not at the gym. If I worked at a gym, I would.

Welcome to our world. Thank you for being so switched on about it. We need men like you.

@pinkstripeycat

Our 6th form girls can wear wherever they like and the boys have to wear suit and tie whatever the weather. I think asking girls to cover shoulders is ridiculous

That would really piss me off if I had sons

Why is it supposed to be preparing them for work?? Who decided this? It's meant to prepare them for A-levels or equivalent! I have relatives who have never worked in an office in their entire lives.

Is it not meant to be preparing them for the world of work?

In that case kids who wanted to work on a building site should be in hi vis and hard hats, kids who are planning to work in fitness should turn up in gym kit. The “world of work” encompasses many professions where business suits would be completely inappropriate.

For every company that doesn’t have a dress code there will be more that so. Some will be more conservative than others.

Meeting the requirement of a no dress code environment doesn’t take a second thought. But in a more conservative environment it can be challenging. It helps to understand the rules, both explicit and unwritten.

Over the years I’ve dealt with (as a client) hundreds of lawyers, accountants and management consultants. Those that turn up “dressed down” concern me not because I’m offended by a male knee in shorts or a cleavage in a vest top, but because they’re either making a statement or telling me that they don’t understand the rules of the road.

I just looked at a local mixed school's uniform policy for sixth form. The rules are split in to "boys" rules and "girls" rules. The differences between the two are:

• boys must wear a shirt and tie, whereas girls should wear office type blouses/tops
• girls "should ensure that their outfits are not revealing and inappropriate to the school environment", but no such mention on the boys.

I can't decide whether this bothers me or not, but I do feel slightly uncomfortable that they feel it has to be said. Surely "office attire" along applies to both boys and girls alike and should be sufficient?

This is the second teacher I've read about on here in as many days saying something a girl is doing is 'distracting to boys'.

I think the other one got deleted though.

Maybe it's in some new training they are having since I've not read about teachers saying that phrase on here before.

Absolutely unbelievable in this day and age.

@SerenDippitty

In any case I’ve no idea why 17/18 year olds need to look professional in school - it makes no difference to their ability, school isn’t a “professional” setting and many of those pupils won’t go on to wear a business suit every day. Utter nonsense.

Is it not meant to be preparing them for the world of work?

But it doesn't.

And in any case, many of them will be going to uni, they won't be in "work" for a long time.

But why on earth is it appropriate for 16-18 yr olds to dress like people in high powered professional environments? They might just as well dress as scuba divers or clowns, it's such a weird idea.

Wherever they’ll be working they will probably be expected to maintain a certain amount of decorum in their dress. I worked in public sector admin. Most people weren’t expected to be in formal business attire every day. OTOH shorts and flip shops, mini skirts, jeans with cuts in them, and spaghetti straps would not have been considered appropriate either. There’s a middle ground.

Has OP been back? Could he have been playing a little game of wind up some MNers?

They are not at work.

The too distracting for boys thing is shit but covering shoulders I wouldn't have an issue with. My DS's school are not even allowed short sleeved shirts.

It may be more of a hygiene thing, with armpits being out - same reason they probably wouldn't allow boys to wear vest tops. But if it's targeted just at girls, then that's a policy that doesn't belong in 2020!

If it's okay (it's not) for the Houses of Parliament ...