to be angry about 6th form's "shoulder's must be covered" policy

[randomname7208633]

I'm a dad of 4 (just putting that out there so there's no confusion) and this morning my dd (17) told me that yesterday, which was pretty hot here (not that that should matter,) she was told by a female member of staff that she had to either wear a coat all day or go home because her top had straps which made her shoulders visible.

Nothing else was uncovered and she was in no way indecent, she was just informed that shoulders had to be covered because otherwise (I know you can see this coming) it was "distracting to boys".

Apparently quite a few other girls were given the same warning that day (probably because it was the first really warm day since they'd been back to school and had all dressed according to the weather) and then a school wide announcement was made.

I've checked the uniform policy and there's no mention of it so I've emailed the school asking for clarification.

If this is indeed a policy that's being enforced I think it's ridiculous that female students are being made to dress in ways to suit male students. If a boy is distracted by girl's shoulders then the problem is with the boy! The messages this sends out just make me smh. It's 2020 and girls are having to think about how their clothes might make boys (and by extension, men) react. Argh!!!

If it was a very strappy and vest type top then it possibly isn't within the dress code and is too casual.

That should be the reason though. Nothing to do with being too distracting for the boys FFS.

Are boys allowed to wear similar types of top? If they are then it is sexist bollocks.

All reasons why Dd will being doing her A levels at the local college, time to dress how she likes and make her fashion mistakes before starting a full time job. Does this mean a sleeveless summer dress that my 80 year old mother might wear is inappropriate?
Dd's high school has issues with ankles, WTF? They seem to be stuck somewhere in the 1800's as a peak of ankle is distracting to boys. So socks must not be the trainer sock kind.

Why would anyone think that that’s an acceptable way to dress at school, male or female?
We don’t have 6th form like that up here, but isn’t it usually akin to a working business environment? Bare shoulders wouldn’t be permitted there either.

Vanguard- the kettles just boiled! Hahaha

Are the boys allowed to wear sleeveless tank tops? If so, YANBU. If not, YABU.

I highly doubt that any boys have complained that they have been distracted by bare shoulders! Seriously where do we get this idea that boys are all sex-mad idiots that start salivating at the mouths at any glimpse of bare skin 🤣!
If the female teacher didn’t agree with bare shoulders she should have admitted it rather than passing the buck. Also if it is not in the dress code of the sixth form that bare shoulders are not allowed then she should not have said anything at all.

What does the dress code say? if it says “business attire” or anything similar, the teacher is right. Neither boys or girls should wear vests (boys are equally likely to show off muscles etc in a tiny vest, so its not a sexist rule).

But if the policy is that its unprofessional or similar then its probably ok.
Out of interest, why is that OK? My professionalism is definitely not limited by the width of my straps, and I have worked in extremely high-powered professional environments where no one really cared if you wore spaghetti straps, flip flops or bermuda shorts. I just find it such an antiquated view, and it seems to apply predominantly to women for some reason.
My friend's teen has bought same tops from a high street shop with her best friend, in same size - to conduct an experiment. One of them was sent home to change, and another wasn't. The only difference between the two young ladies is that one is much curvier than another, size A vs size D (and guess who was considered to wear "revealing" clothes).

But the OP has said that there is nowhere that says it’s not in policy. So YANBU and correct to complain to school.

1. I think its reasonable that a school have a dress code that says shoulders must be covered. Fair for boys and girls and also smarter.

But YANBU

Distracting boys is an absolutely horrendous statement and I would complain loudly. They dont have it written down in the dress code anyway!

What does the uniform policy actually say?

Milly I worked for a large national utility company, we could not wear spaghetti strap tops. It is not considered business attire.

Ds's sixth form also has this policy, also no shorts for either boys or girls, even in winter with thick tights underneath, no sandals, no flip flops, no ripped jeans and no hoodies. But he knew this before he joined.

@emptydreamer of course its random - technically your underwear covers everything that needs to be covered. Speedos are still not acceptable business attire, neither are bikinis.
And the same top in the same size will show a lot more in a curvy woman than in more boyish build woman. On a size D, a top that will cover a size A very well will show pretty much everything.
Same as a size S t-shirt on an xl guy will show a lot of skin. I don’t neec to see either.

6th Form is the first step towards getting a job. Every workplace I know of does not allow strappy tops and suchlike because it is unprofessional looking. I think the school was quite right.

The reason of it being "distracting to boys" is sexist and unacceptable, but strappy tops and bare shoulders are not appropriate office wear and so shouldn't be considered appropriate for school either. All young people need to learn the difference between casual wear and smarter wear and it is quite right that schools should enforce smarter clothing, but their rules must be evenly applicable to both male and female students so that ones sex has no bearing on the fact that one has to put a little more effort and consideration into dressing for school than one does for dressing at the weekend.

I find it so weird that MN as a general rule thinks 6th form should be business dress when 2 years later a large proportion go off to uni and wear whatever they like for 3 years. I went to the top 6th form in Yorkshire - no dress code.

I agree totally with the argument that many schools have a dress code that they claim is business dress, or dressing professionally, when actually it’s nothing like real working “dress codes.” I am a professional and (when not WFH) office based. The idea that we would all have to wear the following is laughable:

Matching tailored jacket and skirt. No kilt with a neutral blazer, because they don’t match. No sleeveless shell tops. No dresses, no skirts other than tailored skirts. Blazers/jackets everyday. Tights 365 days a year. Black leather shoes - always.

It’s like the school are stuck in the 80s when it comes to their attitudes to what constitutes appropriate office attire. It makes me so cross because it takes away the idea that young adults are capable of moderating their dress to suit the occasion.

I sometimes wear jeans to work if I’m going out on site. But when I present meetings I tend to wear something a bit smarter. It’s not rocket science.

What does schools policy say about 6th form dress code?

If it’s not in the policy, then enforcing it is nonsense. YANBU.

I don’t neec to see either.
Eh... isn't a better solution then not looking? I can't care less what my colleagues wear, to be honest.

Another example of everyday sexism.

And while Dd could have voted with her feet by going to the nearest 6th form college, that’s miles away. Every more local comprehensive has identikit 6th dress codes. It’s like a cartel.

And don’t get me started on blazers. I don’t think I’ve ever worked in an environment where blazers are de rigeur. Sending my boys off looking like they’re members of the local golf club or cabin crew. Ridiculously impractical item of dress. Colleagues at work tend only to wear ties at formal meetings. Otherwise is smart shirt and trousers. Sometimes jeans (horrors).

'business attire', I think it depends what kind of work you do, I don't think my husband's architect practice has strict rules where as I am not allowed to wear sandals, smart ones and I think it is out of touch.

Having a no bare shoulders policy is fine no matter whether it is expressed explicitly or couched in terms such as “smart casual” or “business dress”.

Telling a girl that her shoulders are distracting to boys is appalling and needs to be addressed. Is that what the teacher said?

I don’t for a minute believe anyone said it was “distracting to boys”, there is a “distracting to boys” thread every week it seems!

Spaghetti straps are not suitable for school or the workplace, I Adam surprised her parents didn’t tell her before she left the house.

@randomname7208633 Some pps seem to be unable to read as you’ve clearly stated the school does not have a policy on bare shoulders.

You should definitely contact the school to advise them that this is what you have been told by your DD and clearly it’s a mistake because no decent teacher would suggest that girls are responsible for boys’ behaviour... I’m sure they will be happy to clarify.

YADNBU this is just another example of every day sexism and you have a duty to your daughter to challenge it every time.