to be angry about 6th form's "shoulder's must be covered" policy

[randomname7208633]

I'm a dad of 4 (just putting that out there so there's no confusion) and this morning my dd (17) told me that yesterday, which was pretty hot here (not that that should matter,) she was told by a female member of staff that she had to either wear a coat all day or go home because her top had straps which made her shoulders visible.

Nothing else was uncovered and she was in no way indecent, she was just informed that shoulders had to be covered because otherwise (I know you can see this coming) it was "distracting to boys".

Apparently quite a few other girls were given the same warning that day (probably because it was the first really warm day since they'd been back to school and had all dressed according to the weather) and then a school wide announcement was made.

I've checked the uniform policy and there's no mention of it so I've emailed the school asking for clarification.

If this is indeed a policy that's being enforced I think it's ridiculous that female students are being made to dress in ways to suit male students. If a boy is distracted by girl's shoulders then the problem is with the boy! The messages this sends out just make me smh. It's 2020 and girls are having to think about how their clothes might make boys (and by extension, men) react. Argh!!!

I agree the teacher made a silly remark about bare shoulders being ‘distracting’. Sounds like a foot in mouth moment or teacher trying to soften the request by blaming others rather than your DD (who is old enough to know strappy tops aren’t appropriate attire for 6th form school).

I guess the teacher was trying to set rules about too much skin or underwear straps being exposed. It’s a bit impolite to show armpits or bare shoulders in a workplace or school, like wearing short shorts or a low cut top.

I’d only be worried if boys were allowed to wear sleeveless vests and shorts but the girls told to cover up!

@ComeOnBabyPopMyBubble

Would you turn up at a wedding, christening, interview, graduation without looking smart?

I had shoulders on show at all of those.
Shoulders do not equal not smart. Jesus.

As long as it's not a cold shoulder top, which are awful then that's fine.

I dont see anything wrong with shoulders.

I just know our school has a dress code for 6th formers and vests are not allowed.

As long as it's not a cold shoulder top, which are awful then that's fine.

some of my smart tops are cold shoulder. I wear them with a nice skirt and some heels and it dresses up nicely

DD knew she WANTED to go to sixth form at the school that insisted on suits and sleeved blouses and she decided that was fine, dressed accordingly and had no issues.

Lucky for your DD that her school published clear rules - this was not the case for the OP's DD, so hardly comparable. She was told off for breaking a rule that the school hadn't shared, and was also told it was to protect the boys from being distracted by shoulders. Quite right that the OP asks for clarification.

Jesus. It's like the Ark just docked

@RattleOfBars

I agree the teacher made a silly remark about bare shoulders being ‘distracting’. Sounds like a foot in mouth moment or teacher trying to soften the request by blaming others rather than your DD (who is old enough to know strappy tops aren’t appropriate attire for 6th form school).

I guess the teacher was trying to set rules about too much skin or underwear straps being exposed. It’s a bit impolite to show armpits or bare shoulders in a workplace or school, like wearing short shorts or a low cut top.

I’d only be worried if boys were allowed to wear sleeveless vests and shorts but the girls told to cover up!

The OP has already clarified that the top in question was not a strappy top.

@MJMG2015

I may have to steal that.

@OiSortItOwt

Can I just ask why 'bare shoulders' are not appropriate business attire?

I don't understand this. It's a shoulder... It doesn't affect my ability to do my job.

What about knees, can I wear a skirt that shoes my knees? Or are knees not appropriate either? What about elbows?

I have a few of those tops with cut out shoulders that I wear with work pants or skirts. I hope I haven't given any poor men a heartattack after subjecting them to my BARE SHOULDERS gasp

This.

Jesus. It's like the Ark just docked

Truly. Brilliant.

Jesus. It's like the Ark just docked

Guilty of not having read the whole thread but I agree with you @randomname7208633

If the comment had been on it being too 'casual' a look for school or not reflective of a real world professional dress code then I might see their point but distracting to boys? No.

My daughter's school have a similar rule where bras must not be visible - so must be skin toned - also to avoid distracting the boys. Or the girls get a detention.

The boys don't get a detention for being distracted by bras. The girls get a detention for potentially distracting the boys with their bras.

As a society we really must get away from this idea that girls are responsible for boys behaviour.

some of my smart tops are cold shoulder. I wear them with a nice skirt and some heels and it dresses up nicely
I wear cold shoulder tops with jeans or shorts. To work. And I am able to do my job fine. Often I am the only female in the work place. I've not noticed whether my shoulders have ever prevented my male colleagues from doing their work efficiently, but I would assume that's their problem rather than mine!

I just dont like cold shoulder tops. I was joking about them. I'm sure cold shoulder top wearers can do their job just fine.

I dont know of any males that go into a frenzy when near a woman with bare shoulders. I did make a point that our 6th form has a dress code and it's not that hard to follow.

The comment to OP's Daughter was stupid and unprofessional though.

@Jellycatspyjamas

Each intake there always one or two who have no idea of what is suitable office attire, and have to be taken aside quietly to explain what is appropriate or not.

As we’ve seen on this thread though, there’s no universal standard of what’s appropriate in a workplace, so you may need to explain what’s appropriate for your particular workplace or what fits within your organisational culture.

I’m not sure how schools, or family settings could possibly prepare a young person to dress appropriately in your specific office environment. Surely that’s part of the induction process, along with how people get tea breaks, how lunch breaks are planned and other office etiquette - one size is never going to fit all.

It’s extremely difficult to cover every aspect of clothing though. We might assume that It’s obvious that see through black leggings (for example) are not suitable, when worn with a short top. However, every year we have at least one young lady who feels that they are appropriate. To have a list of every possible permutation would be impossible. Whether or not a new employee has knowledge of office dress, I would at least expect them to err on the side of caution for the first few days at least till they have a chance to see what will be suitable or not

pointyshoes

That maybe the case and I can quite well imagine it is!

But the reason should be that its unprofessional attire, not that it will distract the boys.

I’m a teacher and our dress code does not allow bare shoulders as it’s not appropriate business dress

some of you teachers might need to get out and about and look in a few offices and not just read the dress policy of magic circle law firms. I have - gasp - tattoos and i have always worn sleeveless or vest-type tops (not spaghetti straps because then you'd see my bra) at work and i am a senior manager now. I even wear flat sandles and no tights. Which would send, it seems, most teachers in the UK into a fit of the vapours.

For comparison: the men often wear (long) shorts or 3/4 length trousers and sneakers/sandles and polo shirts (no vest-tops though because of armpit hair, i think). Business booms despite our state of undress.

If it's not written explicitly in the school policy, students shouldn't be penalised for it. And if the exact words "distracting boys/male teachers" is used it's a case for strong words.

I remember back in my 6th form days, the girls all wore boob tubes (thanks to Britney Spears and Girl Aloud) in the summer and it wasn't a problem. I think my school knew what students wore didn't have any reflection on their performance. I definitely spent the summer wearing vest tops with knee length skirts and flip flops and I turned out okay.

I have - gasp - tattoos

...and our dress code (and at DHs place of work) specifies “no visible tattoos” as well as the covered shoulders.....

yes, and your dress code is very explicit about that. From reading the thread it seems the school had a dress code in mind but not written down.
FWIW i think that if there's a dress code you either conform, fight it or move on. I'd fight, for eg "no trousers for women" but "no shoulders on show" (ie for anyone) wouldn't bug me in the least, nor would no visible tattoos.

In the past i have said (half-seriously) to male colleagues moaning that we could wear sandals and floaty dresses in summer while they swealtered in suits that as long as they were happy not to be promoted etc, they could wear what they liked

In reality, however, i don't see why canvas shoes and cargo short & polo shirts wouldn't be allowed for men in summer (or whenever). I'm in the menopause - I'm mostly in summer clothes these days because I'm always too darned hot and sweaty. I don't see why men can't have similar clothing privileges.

My son’s school 6th form is ‘business attire’ so bare shoulders would not be allowed. But the whole ‘distracting for boys’ is weird.

The sexist crap isn't just forcing women to wear dowdy clothes to prevent school boys being driven to distraction, it is the sexual stereotyping of schoolboys as unable to behave properly towards their female classmates.

My son is very respectful to young women as his friends seem to be too (I obviously don't know them as well as I know my son).

Decent boys/young men should not be insulted by this absurd teacher. Negative sexual generalisations are classic sexism.

I suspect it is false too. Sure many boys look at girls, but distracted by shoulders? Are you for real? If a boy is going to be distracted by a girl's shoulders, all hell will doubtless break loose if she actually smiled at him. The school would probably have to be closed for everyone to calm down.

We should trust our sixth formers a bit more. They have proved they are responsible people by passing their GCSEs. Why can't we trust them to dress themselves?

Underneath male shoulder, male chest. Underneath female shoulders, breasts. Go figure.

They have proved they are responsible people by passing their GCSEs. Why can't we trust them to dress themselves?

Most NHS trusts have dress codes which include no visible tattoos or unnaturally coloured hair. The people who have to conform to those are responsible enough to hold people’s lives in their hands. I really can’t decide if people posting this stuff are naive or disingenuous.

@DBML

My son’s school 6th form is ‘business attire’ so bare shoulders would not be allowed. But the whole ‘distracting for boys’ is weird.

But bare shoulders is common in a good number of business sectors. I've seen any number of smart women wearing sleeveless dresses as business attire, often with a jacket for meetings.