to be angry about 6th form's "shoulder's must be covered" policy

[randomname7208633]

I'm a dad of 4 (just putting that out there so there's no confusion) and this morning my dd (17) told me that yesterday, which was pretty hot here (not that that should matter,) she was told by a female member of staff that she had to either wear a coat all day or go home because her top had straps which made her shoulders visible.

Nothing else was uncovered and she was in no way indecent, she was just informed that shoulders had to be covered because otherwise (I know you can see this coming) it was "distracting to boys".

Apparently quite a few other girls were given the same warning that day (probably because it was the first really warm day since they'd been back to school and had all dressed according to the weather) and then a school wide announcement was made.

I've checked the uniform policy and there's no mention of it so I've emailed the school asking for clarification.

If this is indeed a policy that's being enforced I think it's ridiculous that female students are being made to dress in ways to suit male students. If a boy is distracted by girl's shoulders then the problem is with the boy! The messages this sends out just make me smh. It's 2020 and girls are having to think about how their clothes might make boys (and by extension, men) react. Argh!!!

I don’t think the vest thing is sexist - I would be very surprised if boys would be allowed to wear vests, and tbe distraction element also goes in both directions (it is stupid though). vests are underwear/leisurewear though, so not appropriate in most professional environments - I don’t need to see every square centimetre of my colleagues skin, neither male nor female.

Another example of everyday sexism

It’s only sexism if boys are asked to cover to and presumably they are not permitted to wear vests/tank tops

Just to clarify - this "no shoulders" thing - is it confined to spaghetti straps (inappropriate in most workplace settings) or does it also include a ban on sleeveless tops with vest-type straps (which should be perfectly acceptable surely?). As in shift-type dresses with no sleeves?

Its wrong on several levels. One is 'its distracting to boys'. Two, if it is in the policy, i hope it reflects equally for males/females and three , do college students really need to wear business attire? it seems very old fashioned to be policing clothes in an educational setting for young adults

Can I just ask why 'bare shoulders' are not appropriate business attire?

I don't understand this. It's a shoulder... It doesn't affect my ability to do my job.

What about knees, can I wear a skirt that shoes my knees? Or are knees not appropriate either? What about elbows?

I have a few of those tops with cut out shoulders that I wear with work pants or skirts. I hope I haven't given any poor men a heartattack after subjecting them to my BARE SHOULDERS gasp

I'm surprised 6th formhas a uniform policy like this. We could wear what we wanted as long as it wasn't offensive or vulgar... We could even dye our hair bright blue if we wanted. All this "wearing business/office-friendly attire" sounds awful. They have their whole lived of working to wear that shit.

If "no shoulders" isn't in the policy, ask them why they are suddenly enforcing this using misogyny? Re distracting boys with their... Shoulders.

@emptydreamer

But if the policy is that its unprofessional or similar then its probably ok. Out of interest, why is that OK? My professionalism is definitely not limited by the width of my straps, and I have worked in extremely high-powered professional environments where no one really cared if you wore spaghetti straps, flip flops or bermuda shorts. I just find it such an antiquated view, and it seems to apply predominantly to women for some reason. My friend's teen has bought same tops from a high street shop with her best friend, in same size - to conduct an experiment. One of them was sent home to change, and another wasn't. The only difference between the two young ladies is that one is much curvier than another, size A vs size D (and guess who was considered to wear "revealing" clothes).

It's total bollocks that most 'high powered professional environments' think that Bermuda shorts and flip flops are suitable office attire. Most don't like spaghetti straps either.

I think the rules are generally worse for boys - they are stuck wearing suits!

Shows*

If it’s not in the dress code, they shouldn’t be enforcing it. School need to consult on updating the dress code (well, they don’t have to, but they should), then update it, then enforce it.

When I started work in the early 2000s, my mum told me ‘not even a glimpse of cleavage, no sleeveless tops’. I think that was old-fashioned even then. I certainly see plenty of sleeveless tops at work in hot weather. It’s just not an issue. For an important meeting, men would put on jacket and tie, women would put on a jacket.

Business attire? Some more successful women in business failed to get that memo!

Flipping heck...it's one thing to have a school uniform but insisting on business attire for 16-18 year olds....since when has being a 6th former become a "professional". Their in a classroom ffs not a boardroom.

@OiSortItOwt
I asked the same, I also can't understand this. I think it comes from some version of a madonna/whore stereotype, where a woman can be either a sexless professional or a sexual being, but not both.

*they're

Distracting to boys seems to be a phrase that's coming up on here a lot recently... I suppose it's at least a change from "popular".

Can't imagine a teacher saying that, male or female. But I don't think it's unreasonable to have dress codes, and no shoulders is quite a reasonable one for both boys and girls.

Aussie rules football top, vest tops, neither suitable got school imo.

It was the same code at my (otherwise casual) sixth form of my school.
No strappy tops.
And it was an all girls school... 🤷‍♀️

Yes, I mean why do you need to look 'professional' when you are 16-18, if you go on to university you can wear whatever you want! Also, schools have outdated ideas of what 'business attire' is anyway.

Just sounds a bit old fashioned more than anything

You omitted to read a key detail. The school are enforcing bits of a uniform policy which aren't actually written down.

The policy should be written down, if they want their pupils to follow it. Claiming an unwritten rule has to be followed can actually backfire on them.

Meanwhile, I must say I find the idea that business clothing needs to be worn to be rather ridiculous. It's not a business, and I'm pretty sure the pupils will be able to wear appropriate clothing when they need to. As long as they aren't showing off genitals or nipples, I couldn't give a toss what 6th formers wear.

My DS is 16, gonig to college. He is perfectly able to wear smart clothes when he needs to, and all without my input.

@Clymene
I never said "most". Just said that it is a stereotype that is dying very fast. Have a stroll in the City during the lunchbreak (outside the lockdown, of course), and you will see a fair share of spaghetti straps and florid colours spilling out of the offices.

They shouldn’t be using boys being distracted as a reason to cover up. Was it said in a jokey manner?

It would be interesting to know if the top was a spaghetti strap style, or more like a sleeveless tshirt or shirt.

It's not hard to follow school uniform policy. I don't know why so many people have such difficulties with it. You often see them in the DailyFail sporting 'Compo Face'.

The 'distracting to boys' bit is bullshit though. That's the bit I'd be annoyed about.

I had a similar issue with my dd's primary school - I know it's different as she's only 7 but I was fuming when she came home and told me that one of the teachers had told her she was not allowed to do handstands if she was wearing a skirt without shorts underneath.
I wrote to the head asking why, in a safe school environment setting, my 7 yo was being asked to modify her clothes in order to keep her safe. From what exactly? Are they unable to guarantee her safety from male teachers / other pupils if anyone catches sight of her knickers?
I was absolutely fuming - the head teacher agreed with me and passed this message to the entire teaching staff.
I am not having my daughters taught that they are responsible for male behaviour and should dress with that in mind.

Sounds fine to me, when I'm client facing we're not allowed bare legs or shoulders - tights (they have to be oqaque), t-shirts, trousers all fine though.

I don’t agree with the “distracting to boys comment” but most professional workplaces have a no vest policy for men and women.