To tell my son he scraped a pass when he didn’t?

[Afibtomyboy]

My son is due to take the 11 plus test in a month.

We paid for a private tutor last two years (as is the norm around here).
He has done a revision course And mocks.
He’s a bright boy and should pass.

However, he likely now won’t be going to grammar school as we will keep him at the private Prep school he currently goes to (that Goes up to year 8) and then on to another private school, which has its own admissions process rather than the 11 plus.

So... Pass or fail has no consequence whatsoever, and here’s the thing.... He has very very low self confidence. We are awaiting an adhd diagnosis (mild). He and his friends are competitive, actively encouraged by the school (a good thing IMO) and results will be discussed.

I am so worried about the impact on his self confidence if he does fail. I can’t tell you how much we have worked on building up his confidence over the last year, and it’s reaped so much. He’s so much happier, so much more settled. It is very positive but I strongly sense that an 11 plus fail will go deep, very deep and have a lingering negative impact.

Seeing as the impact of the result isn’t going to change our plan to keep him at current school (when we embarked on the 11 plus tutoring and process we didn’t think he would be staying but now we have sufficient funds to facilitate it, hence the change in plan. Still plan to take though, as head of current school says it will be very good preparation for the admissions process to the school we hope he will go to), AIBU to tell him that he did pass (but say that it was a scraped pass, but a pass nonetheless) if he does fail?

He might pass, and its standardised so his August birthday will be taken into consideration... But I don't think you would be unreasonable to fib if he doesn't.

@CheetasOnFajitas

Ha- well at least local BOYS get the chance *@Hardbackwriter*! Please tell me there is an equivalent option for girls in the same area?

Oh, of course there is, it's just that I wanted to be clear that I was more or less repeating what DH had said about the specific school he works at (the boys one). I imagine the girls school has exactly the same issues, levels of competitiveness over entry, influx of commuting students - the two schools are across the road from each other so I don't know why they wouldn't - but I can't actually say because, unlike the boys' school, I don't know anyone who works there or has daughters there.

This. Proponents of the Grammar system (aka proponents of the Secondary Modern system) will insist it's all about opportunity for the "naturally bright" whilst shelling out ££££ for tutoring to get their own not naturally bright children in at the expense of those who are supposed to have access on genuine merit

In my area it is not super selective as there is 6 local grammars and 4 use the 11+ exam (totalling 725 places) the other 2 have their own admission test.
If a local child reaches the required grammar standard score then historically the child is allocated a grammar school place, there have always been enough spaces for local children who pass and the score has not been changed for as long as I can remember.

Admissions is based on reaching the required score (it doesn't matter if they surpass the score by 1 or 40) over subscription is then the usual looked after, sibling and distance. There are usually so many available spaces that one of the grammars has a bus route that begins over 35 miles away. No tutored student takes a place at the expense of a naturally bright non tutored child if they both live in this LA and both pass the exam.

Taking a test you don't need to take could be useful if you see it as practice and are fine with learning from how you do. If your confidence is low and you may just be lied to about the result, it's not only pointless but potentially actively unhelpful. He won't learn from any mistakes or correct any errors in his next exam.

I think your focus should be on the fact that if passing is seriously in doubt, presumably passing entrance to the school you actually intend to send him to is also in doubt. You won't be able to lie about that.

Of course! I would say he got in everywhere and did really well, take him for a treat etc. They are too young to handle this sense of failure.

Wow. Thought it would be a sizeable majority saying yabu because you are. Just tell him.hes staying put and forget all about taking the 11+. In another 2 years hopefully he will have built up his confidence ready for his next school

Assume OP hasn’t said whether her area is ‘full’ grammar system or just has a few ‘super selective’ state grammars. In either case it’s not usually pass/fail, but rankings.

IMO having chosen where to live, what schools to apply for, to tutor etc, putting him into the situation, you should tell him the truth about whether or not his ranking would have secured his admission.

@Hardbackwriter phew!

[quote JinglingHellsBells]@Didkdt I think you have misread, totally, where he is and where he is going next.

He doesn't need a test now as he is staying at his current prep school for 2 more years.[/quote]
Yes but most 13 plus entries are now pre testing at 11plus even for the Common Entrance effectively an extra entrance exam.
You know your 13 plus place is offered by the end of year 6 for most schools, others see if you pass the Pretest Then interview and then you can sit the school exam in year 7 for year 9 others do the pre- test and CE in year 8.
It’s all quite competetive now.

This kind of academic pressure and competitiveness sounds hideous. Poor kids.

why would you make him take the test? there is no point in takin git and you are adding even more stress to a childs live that you dont have too...

watch his happiness increase when he realises he doesnt have to do a test and 'compete' with 100's of other children...

you may think that competitiveness between children for good results is good (I don't I think chidlren should acheive their own potential) but I would suggest your dc lack of confidence may be related to the fact that it may not work for him.....

and I'm not sure I would be taking the word of a head that is happy that you pay school fees and also pay to tutor as the school are not good enough to teach to a test.... I woudl be very pissed off if I had to pay twice- I am not against provate education at all but am very against paying twice (well 3 times as is you pay tax you contribute to state ed as well)

Seriuosly though if your son needs that level of support for confidence and the 11+ low self esteem I would be re-evaluating the sort of school that suits him as an individual not what everyone else does...
at least without the pressure of grammer entry (which is hugely stressful on dc - as they too will have heard all the other schools are dire message from parents) you have a couple of years to build his resilience and self confidence natuarlly

You don’t pass/fail.

Lets say there are 400 pupils in y6 in the area. The local grammar school can take 100 in y7.

The results are looked at and the top 100 are deemed to have passed and are offered a place at the selective school.

The. There are appeals - if some don’t take up a place etc then those a little down the list can be offered a place.

To complicate it there are/were weightings for boys/girls to get an even mix at the selective school.

Me - I’m not in favour of this cruel and inaccurate selection process. Its wrong to effectively tell a child at 11 that they are a failure. (Or, for some, a success)

It can be rendered inaccurate to be hothousing some children who really shouldn't be at that school and then can’t cope.

It also locks out bright but poorer children.

I’m not opposed to private education - although some schools aren’t as good as they’d like you to think they are.

But selection at 11 - no. Too young.

If you don't need the result and his friends will all discuss results that could lead to him feeling less confident I would not put him into the test in the first place, to be honest. If he is going to do the 13+ in year 8 I would not sabotage his confidence now.

@Didkdt Really? Which area are you in? never ever heard of knowing in yr 6 if you would pass the 13+ exam .

Also, OP please don't write off the 'dire' schools. We're not in a grammar area and actively chose not to send privately. Our kids' school was not even average. Yet my son got into Cambridge and my daughter is about to start at LSHTM doing an in-demand Masters. They did it by following their own path and passions and working hard. That's the best recipe for success and happiness

I too think you may be worrying unnecessarily; but the main thing is to go into the process with a plan for dealing with the results. I agree with someone upthread who suggested that the results are age adjusted so as not to disadvantage an August birthday.

There are quite a few questioning why do 11+ as practice if staying at prep for 2 more years - a lot of 13+ entry schools now pretest, often in yr 6 sometimes in yr 7 so the timing of 11+ does work to prepare for other entrance tests coming up in a matter of months. However - do check that there are enough similarities between the tests or that the experience of doing it will actually give meaningful practice for pre-tests that he is likely to be doing.

Whatever your own worries, try to prepare your son in a do-your-best but what-will-be-will-be manner. They do mature so much between 10 and 13! We are not in a grammar area so didn't have that option to consider. However my son did two sets of pre-tests in year 6 and another two in year 7. In his case he was fine on the tests and the problem was interviews, and general maturity. End of year 7 we had one place offered (that couldn't offer us a bursary), one "maybe" but can we see him again in six months, and the school he wanted had turned him down in year 6. But as he turned 12 over the summer, his increased maturity meant that scholarship entries became a valid option and in the end he went to the school we all liked best. It did feel rather a marathon supporting him through it all at the time.

Double check with his headmaster that it's worth him sitting 11+, then go into it with a relaxed and positive attitude that you can then reproduce (hopefully!) with subsequent assessments. Good luck and I hope he gets the senior school place you want for him.

[quote Bubblesgun]**@Afibtomyboy
You are looking at it the wrong way IMO.

The only to build his confidence is to

1. Discuss with the change of plan, the reasoning and the outcome you are expecting to achieve. So the Why and the How.
2. Get him on board
3. As a consequence tell him he doesnt HAVE TO take the 11+ unless he WANTS TO to see how it feels like.
4. Explain then that the results successful, pass or fail or number or whatever have no meaning because it is about PRACTISING the PROCESS of admissions.

Then, after the exam if he takes it, deconstruct the process with him.

• what was easy and hard and why
• did he feel ready
• what does he think he should have focused on
• what would he do differently if he was to take it again

Etc

That way you are building his confidence on his ability to trust HIMSELF hence you are giving him a positive self esteem.

Your plan as described in your post will achieve the opposite AND erode the trust he has in you.
That is only my opinion of course.[/quote]
Agree with Bubblesgun

The grammar schools have to mark the exam papers and you're wasting their time.
He'll probably have done a mock exam won't he? I'd now withdraw him, explaining why (that he doesn't need to do it because you're able to keep him at the current school).
That will avoid this "dilemma". If he does do the exam, then I wouldn't lie to him, no.

The school will know. It will not be secret and your son will find out. You will definitely be one of 'those' parents.

And if he's August born it will account for that.

Personally I wouldn't have him take it as it the negative effect of him potentially failing outweigh any benefits, he's not going so who cares?

Has he been party to discussions about his education? I think that would raise his confidence mightily.

What are you teaching him by 1. Making him take an exam that he doesn’t need to take and 2. Lying to him about the results? That it’s ok to apply unnecessary pressure to yourself and that it’s ok to lie? Bonkers.

I’m in an 11+ area and the children are so aware of the results that any child that sits and doesn’t go would raise eyebrows.. amongst peers, parents, teachers and your son will be asked questions - you know how it is. The entire system is ridiculous. I won’t be putting my child in for the test, because I never want her to question whether her academic ability is enough.. at 10/11.

Lol at the Op, thanks for all the advice, I'm going to do what I was planning anyway. Why do some people post?

I hope you really take a look at your family structure. He has incredibly low self esteem, you don't have any confidence in his abilities to succeed and you are completely fine with lying to him. He's probably not bright enough to pass but you were going to put him into a highly competitive environment, with low self esteem, where he is likely to be at the bottom of the pile (if he really isn't that bright), where his self esteem would erode further. Perhaps part of the reason he has low self esteem is because he can tell you don't have any genuine believe in his abilities, and/or because he knows he isn't that academic but that it is very important to you that he succeeds?

He's a small child FGS. I'd consider some family therapy to look at how you communicate as a system and how you can improve the self esteem as a family, because something is going wrong here. Take some time to step back from schools and hot housing and pressure and diagnoses and focus on the whole child.

Having read more of other peoples replies I'd like to change my mind and say don't fib. I think be truthful with him and see if he wants to still take it

[quote JinglingHellsBells]@Didkdt Really? Which area are you in? never ever heard of knowing in yr 6 if you would pass the 13+ exam .[/quote]
I'm in the Home Counties. Some examples across the SE are
Portsmouth Grammar, Seaford, Lancing Lord Wandsworth St Paul's, Reeds Duke of Wellington etc