To tell my son he scraped a pass when he didn’t?

[Afibtomyboy]

My son is due to take the 11 plus test in a month.

We paid for a private tutor last two years (as is the norm around here).
He has done a revision course And mocks.
He’s a bright boy and should pass.

However, he likely now won’t be going to grammar school as we will keep him at the private Prep school he currently goes to (that Goes up to year 8) and then on to another private school, which has its own admissions process rather than the 11 plus.

So... Pass or fail has no consequence whatsoever, and here’s the thing.... He has very very low self confidence. We are awaiting an adhd diagnosis (mild). He and his friends are competitive, actively encouraged by the school (a good thing IMO) and results will be discussed.

I am so worried about the impact on his self confidence if he does fail. I can’t tell you how much we have worked on building up his confidence over the last year, and it’s reaped so much. He’s so much happier, so much more settled. It is very positive but I strongly sense that an 11 plus fail will go deep, very deep and have a lingering negative impact.

Seeing as the impact of the result isn’t going to change our plan to keep him at current school (when we embarked on the 11 plus tutoring and process we didn’t think he would be staying but now we have sufficient funds to facilitate it, hence the change in plan. Still plan to take though, as head of current school says it will be very good preparation for the admissions process to the school we hope he will go to), AIBU to tell him that he did pass (but say that it was a scraped pass, but a pass nonetheless) if he does fail?

I find it bizarre that you think it's a good thing that your child is in a competitive environment, but you simultaneously want to lie to him to remove the element of competition. The point of a competitive environment is that not everyone can win, and the people who lose have to pick themselves up and try again.

Another thought. PP up thread said they are asking people to not to take the exam if they are planning to go somewhere else, so they can reduce the number of children attending to reduce the risk of covid spreading.

Why would you even let your child take unnecessary exam in the middle of pandemic, surrounded by many children?

Why are you pushing your son down this path if you already think he’s incapable of passing, despite years of tutoring? I wouldn’t expect him to sit the exam. You’re adding pressure (and then lying to him) when it isn’t needed

There’s absolutely no point taking an exam as ‘practice’ that will make him feel bad if he doesn’t pass. That would be counter productive. And completely pointless.

I would take into consideration that while he is bright he lacks confidence and send him to a nurturing private school for which he is very unlikely to fail the selection.

I would not mess with his head with suggestions that he can take the 11+ if he wants etc - because he may just do what he thinks you and his teachers want him to do, and he’s too young to know how he might feel if he fails etc

Do not lie. The truth will always out.

I can think of nothing more dispiriting than finding out you were such a snowflake even your parents had to lie to you.

The way to build confidence, is too teach a child resilience. How to get over little setbacks, keep them in proportion, and move on.

You should also be teaching him the value of family trust, honesty, integrity Not, lying to people you love. Then when he has a real problem in later life, he'll tell you, instead of trying to cover it up to avoid upsetting you.

Tell him the truth.

This is cruel on so many levels.

Just a thought, but if he can't pass the 11 plus surely he is unlikely to pass the school entrance exam? If he doesn't need to take the 11 plus don't make him take it, just use the additional time to get him through the entrance exam. There were a couple of girls at my school who I'm sure didn't manage to pass the entrance exam but still had places and I don't think it did them any favours, they were obviously out of their depth academically and not happy, so if he doesn't pass it may be for the best.

You're getting a rough ride from some posters because they are 100% against selection in education. They are entitled to feel that way, just as you (and I) are entitled to not agree with them

I would tell him he's passed if you are certain he won't find out, and he may well pass anyway.
He's your child, and you know him best. And it will be good preparation for a later exam. My children did the 13+, and would have found it less worrying if they had previously experienced something more demanding than just SAT's. and school tests.

OP please don’t lie to him.

I passed my 11 plus, but only just. One mark lower and I would have failed.

Three years on my sister passed, and got the exact same mark! Would you believe it?!

Later I found out that my sister had failed, but due to me being at the grammar school she won her appeal and was offered a place. Mum, dad and my sister all knew but I was lied to so that I didn’t tease my sister about getting a lower score.

Guess what? I’m not convinced I passed. My mum assures me I did but even to this day (I’m 31 now) I’m not sure if I believe her. It doesn’t matter in the big scheme of things but I lost the trust I did have over something so trivial.

I’m fully supportive of selective education, but I think it’s wrong of the OP to lie to her son about his abilities. If he’s not academically able to pass on his own merit, why set him up to fail? And why then lie about it. Perhaps find a school that’s better suited to his strengths.

To lie over something like this is wrong on every level, when he finds out it will knock his confidence even more. Either give him the choice or be honest with him.

Absolute madness.

Why not send the poor boy to a lesser school where he can build his confidence and ignore the 11 plus. If necessary move and commute.

The school will be told he has passed or failed - so if he is telling people he passed then the school will think he is a lier when it’s actually you. This would be practise for him being robust. He might pass. My children did pass but I told them I was not going to tell them the score for one month and if they wanted to know then they could ask. The reason I did this is so if the kids at school were comparing scores my children could not get involved as they genuinely did not know their scores.

@SuitedandBooted

You're getting a rough ride from some posters because they are 100% against selection in education. They are entitled to feel that way, just as you (and I) are entitled to not agree with them

I would tell him he's passed if you are certain he won't find out, and he may well pass anyway.
He's your child, and you know him best. And it will be good preparation for a later exam. My children did the 13+, and would have found it less worrying if they had previously experienced something more demanding than just SAT's. and school tests.

I’m not against selection, I went to selective schools and so do my kids.

But lying is stupid - it will come out somehow. Terrible idea.

Kids with low confidence need nurturing schools, not schools they need to be coached to get into. There are many private schools that are relaxed academically.

@SuitedandBooted

You're getting a rough ride from some posters because they are 100% against selection in education. They are entitled to feel that way, just as you (and I) are entitled to not agree with them

I would tell him he's passed if you are certain he won't find out, and he may well pass anyway.
He's your child, and you know him best. And it will be good preparation for a later exam. My children did the 13+, and would have found it less worrying if they had previously experienced something more demanding than just SAT's. and school tests.

I’m not against selective schools, if helps facilitate social mobility and create opportunities for the brightest students (from deprives backgrounds) and where selection is based on natural academic ability alone.

That’s not what happens though is it? Hot housing the middle class children for 3 years so they get the place

Then they try and suggest that young Charles would have passed regardless of tutoring...... hmmmm

Do you plan to keep lying to him to protect his self-esteem? So if he doesn't get into the school you'll apply to for Yr9, will you lie too to cover it up?

First of all consider if he should sit this exam. If he wont be goin g to the school, what is the point, unless it is purely for practice? if it's purely practice that is required And he is unlikely to pass and is fragile and unable to cope with that, then don't put him in. Find other ways to practice. There are other mocks and online resources etc.

When will he sit exams for the Independnet? Even for yr9 entry, children usually sit in Yr6 now. So it sounds like he will have to face exams soon anyway.

You need to come to terms with the fact he might not always pass everything and also with the fact he's a bit fragile and how to deal with him to help build him up. Lying isn't the way. Choosing carefully the situations you place him in and boosting him through success, plus gradually letting him learn how to deal with disappointment is what is needed. But he does have to learn to deal to deal with it and to know his mum will be honest with him and help him whatever happens.

So it sounds to me like he shouldn't sit the exam. It won't achieve anything but create problems. He doesn't need to sit the exam as he wont go to that school. He doesn't need to practice via this exam as there are other ways to practice. But you do need to think about how you will handle it if he doesn't get into the school you do want or other disappointments which are totally inevitable in life. Lies are not the way.

From a Mum of 2 young men - both in their 30s... don't lie to your kids. Trust is so important when it comes to the big stuff.

When did education become so toxic?

Once upon a time it was about gaining knowledge and skills. Now it's an Olympic sport and it's all about performance and being seen to have won in the scholastic arena.

I find it distressing.

And basing self-confidence on exam performance is a bad idea. Better to encourage a child to perceive themselves as being worthy for their deeper and more durable personal qualities, rather than have their confidence wax and wane with exam results.

However I do understand how easy it is to get fixated on such things in the current educational climate.

That’s not what happens though is it? Hot housing the middle class children for 3 years so they get the place

That's not what happens long term though.

You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

If a child is 'hot housed' ( and it's actually impossible to make an average child bright) they tend to fall at the first hurdle. They might pass an entrance exam through learning by rote, for some parts of it, but when they are in the school they will sink to the bottom.

It's the same when they get to uni; I know of so many kids who were spoon fed at good public schools and practically had a their personal statements written by their teachers, and then they found it hard to cope with the reality of independent learning at uni. Some of them drop out.

Speaking from professional experience, all children find their own level in the end, regardless of 'cramming' for exams.

Then they try and suggest that young Charles would have passed regardless of tutoring...... hmmmm

There is nothing wrong with tutoring per se.

It can help children who aren't getting enough attention in a class of 30, or whose teachers are just not the best.

The problem is that some kids JUST get by with tutoring and are always in danger of falling to the bottom of the pile, so it becomes incredibly stressful for them to be reliant on tutoring often because their parents are over-ambitious or unrealistic about their ability.

I took the 11+ decades ago and passed, and went to a state grammar when the only other option was the sec modern.
I didn't expect to pass as my parents didn't set my expectations high. I was told that whatever the result, it would all be fine.

But even then, a letter arrived and it would have been very hard not to see it as I was waiting for the post on the day.

Even if things have changed, kids still expect to see their result in writing of some sort.

Yes I think that’s a good point Jingling.

Tbh I’m gobsmacked that OP is even considering this.

You're getting a rough ride from some posters because they are 100% against selection in education

I'd say the OP is getting a rough ride because an encouraging proportion of posters are opposed to lying to their children.

And as ittakes2 points out this is a lie that will make the people around him think he is a liar.

@SuitedandBooted

As Cory says the poster is getting a 'rough ride' as most sensible people think it's not a good idea to lie to their dc about their exam results and then goad other people about it:

Afibtomyboy Interesting The majority Of Mumsnetters will be aghast... but I rather get a kick out of that . But he’s very keen to take the exam So on the chance he fails - I will tell him he passed.

You will have to come to terms with his academic limits at some point and so will he.