To tell my son he scraped a pass when he didn’t?

[Afibtomyboy]

My son is due to take the 11 plus test in a month.

We paid for a private tutor last two years (as is the norm around here).
He has done a revision course And mocks.
He’s a bright boy and should pass.

However, he likely now won’t be going to grammar school as we will keep him at the private Prep school he currently goes to (that Goes up to year 8) and then on to another private school, which has its own admissions process rather than the 11 plus.

So... Pass or fail has no consequence whatsoever, and here’s the thing.... He has very very low self confidence. We are awaiting an adhd diagnosis (mild). He and his friends are competitive, actively encouraged by the school (a good thing IMO) and results will be discussed.

I am so worried about the impact on his self confidence if he does fail. I can’t tell you how much we have worked on building up his confidence over the last year, and it’s reaped so much. He’s so much happier, so much more settled. It is very positive but I strongly sense that an 11 plus fail will go deep, very deep and have a lingering negative impact.

Seeing as the impact of the result isn’t going to change our plan to keep him at current school (when we embarked on the 11 plus tutoring and process we didn’t think he would be staying but now we have sufficient funds to facilitate it, hence the change in plan. Still plan to take though, as head of current school says it will be very good preparation for the admissions process to the school we hope he will go to), AIBU to tell him that he did pass (but say that it was a scraped pass, but a pass nonetheless) if he does fail?

He and his friends are competitive, actively encouraged by the school (a good thing IMO) and results will be discussed

I think having a child with low confidence and self-esteem in a system which encourages competition and comparison is really counter-productive.

He needs to work on developing himself, not seeing himself in constant comparison to other people.

@JinglingHellsBells

Please don’t lie to him. If he fails to get into the grammar but thinks he has passed his 11+ then what?

His mother is not sending him to grammar school now.

Sorry! I didn’t mean the grammar I meant the private. It has its own process but there is no definite that he will get in...if he doesn’t and thinks he has passed his 11+, he then may want to go to the grammar and then what, you admit you lied? Not a good idea!

@Afibtomyboy I could easily have written this post myself. We were in similar situation a few years ago. I chose to be completely honest and open with my son. I explained to him why I was making him sit the exam even though he might not use it for a school. He was fine with it. And we agreed that he should treat it like he needed it. Tbh I kept reassuring him that I was proud of him regardless of his score. He passed the exam for a couple of schools and didn’t for some others and he was fine with it. Only thing I did was explain to him if other kids discuss to tell them he’s staying on at their school and not engage about the scores he didn’t want to disclose. I think he was fine. He never mentioned feeling down about his scores.
Hope it works out for you whatever you do.

He and his friends are competitive, actively encouraged by the school (a good thing IMO)

Except that this culture clearly isn’t a good thing for your son, as evident from his struggles. Parent the child you have, not the one you thought you would have.

• I think having a child with low confidence and self-esteem in a system which encourages competition and comparison is really counter-productive.

He needs to work on developing himself, not seeing himself in constant comparison to other people.*

This. If he went to the grammar it would be a constant stream of having to reassure him that A is lower than A star but still a great grade, middle set in grammar is still top x% nationally etc. Years of competition at a time when hormones may make you feel less confident is not a great place for someone with low self esteem

Sorry haven't read the whole thread. Maybe the current Head just wants to maximise the number of passes to grammar school for his school records. Personally I wouldn't put an under-confident child through a test he didn't need to take. Why not just tell him your decision and see what he says - if he's relieved and happy not to have to bother, all well and good. If he's disappointed, you can put him in for it. Let him have a say - that will be good for his confidence!

But what if he gets a low score in the 11+, and for some reason doesn't get a private school place either.

What will you say to him when he says "oh, that's OK - as my score was xyz I can go to the grammar school instead"?

I haven’t read the whole thread so sorry if I’m repeating what’s already been said...

Why put him through tutoring and an exam that he doesn’t need to pass?

And no, I would not lie to my child and say they passed if they didn’t, why not just tell him that it doesn’t matter what score he gets and that your proud of how hard he tries?

I’m kind of glad that my kids are not in the private school system.

My DC did it and you simply log on and see the score, its not some fancy letter saying congratulations and there is no 'pass mark'.

The schools take the kids with the highest pass mark and use that as an example.

One year it could be an average of 220 and then the following it might only be 180.

I dont think we even were told what the core was out of.

Surely if he's bright and has had two years of tutoring he will sail through?

@HerculesMulligan

"The alternative to grammar around here if not private is dire"

I'm astonished no-one else has picked you up on this. The system creams off the richest kids (private school), the next richest kids (tutoring) and the brightest of the not-rich kids (succeding on untutored intellectual abillty) and the alternative is "dire"? Well, no shit. I wonder why. You're part of the problem.

^ This. Proponents of the Grammar system (aka proponents of the Secondary Modern system) will insist it's all about opportunity for the "naturally bright" whilst shelling out ££££ for tutoring to get their own not naturally bright children in at the expense of those who are supposed to have access on genuine merit.

I have 2 DC who took and passed the 11+ in recent years.

I haven't told either of them their scores. One scored high, the other scraped in and had they not been an August brothers, they wouldn't be at grammar now.

Having worked in a grammar school I've seen terrific results from children from less affluent homes who have been given the opportunity to shine. Those tutored for the 11+ are a small minority as it's expensive. Many tutored children struggle and a surprising number leave and go to a non-selective school. Conversely when places become available children from non-selectives do an entrance exam and if the pass, do very well academically. There is absolutely no point in putting your DS through this if he's never going to a grammar school. Entrance to sixth form is on GCSE results anyway, so if you can't afford private education any longer, he has that option. Some private schools have very poor standards so I hope his hasn't.
Just tell your son the truth which is he's not going to a grammar school anyway so the exam is pointless.

Look at what happened to the GCSEs and A Level results because of Covid.
What happens if the grammar school you want isn’t able to run their own entrance exam because of Covid and decide to rely upon 11+ scores or teaching reports where unavailable?
Surely your best bet is to continue as you are. Get him to take the test, tell him to do his best and that’s all you’d ever expect.

You never know how it’s going to go and he might end up needing that result to get into the school you want.

It sounds like you expect him to fail, which is not very supportive.

@ErinBrockovich

Look at what happened to the GCSEs and A Level results because of Covid. What happens if the grammar school you want isn’t able to run their own entrance exam because of Covid and decide to rely upon 11+ scores or teaching reports where unavailable? Surely your best bet is to continue as you are. Get him to take the test, tell him to do his best and that’s all you’d ever expect.

You never know how it’s going to go and he might end up needing that result to get into the school you want.

Also if this does happen and you told him he’d passed when he actually failed you’d find yourself in a very difficult position.

Proponents of the Grammar system (aka proponents of the Secondary Modern system) will insist it's all about opportunity for the "naturally bright" whilst shelling out ££££ for tutoring to get their own not naturally bright children in at the expense of those who are supposed to have access on genuine merit.

That is true, but it would take a very brave parent to send their child to a school that they knew to be bad, simply in the hope that others will follow and the system will eventually change. Nobody who has the means to get into an alternative school is going to use their child as a guinea pig. You can’t lay the blame at the door of an individual parent.

If he has sailed through every mock why are you so worried about a fail? Why are you planning for a fail?

Sounds like you are a worrier - maybe his low confidence is a result of you constantly worrying and looking on the negative side of things?

If you have made good progress with his confidence then don't sit the exam. Just continue building his confidence the school will provide lots of exam practise for later exams.

Personally I would challenge any system/school/head that was normalizing this. Honestly, you don't get self confidence from competition and living this way, it's from within and being able to know what matters most and being proud of who you are, strengths and areas you are working on too.

Never would I want this for my dc. Yes, sometimes exams are part of life, but it's about learning from them, reflecting, seeing what worked well and what you'd do differently. You make it seem like your value in life is your results and being able to compete.

Please really examine why this is so important for you. I think it may be a huge part of why your son lacked self confidence...

crikey. If ever there was a reason to abolish grammars, this is it. Of course the other choices are dire. Honestly OP, seriously, can't you work out the mechanism here whereby the 'bog standard' comps get short-changed of all the talent. God I hate our education system!
Sorry. I'm being rude. But if it needs pointing out....

Personally I wouldn't put him through it, when all it will achieve is to make him feel mediocre.

I do think a lot of people on this thread have no idea just how selective the top state grammars are, because of how many applicants they get per place. The one DH teaches at has gone from very (maybe top 5% sitting the exam get in) to crazily (less than 1% - and most of the children sitting it will have been identified as bright by their schools and the vast majority have some degree of tutoring), largely because people now think it's perfectly reasonable for their child to do a 60-90 minute commute from central London (the school is not in London) to go there whereas a few years ago nobody thought that was a viable option and so only reasonably local children sat the entrance exam. DH invigilated on 11+ day one year for extra cash and came home saying he would never do it again because the stress levels among such young children were so upsetting to witness.

No, you do not 'sail in' by being bright, even with a tutor; the numbers are such that loads of really bright boys who have had a lot of tutoring won't make it because there are only 90 places and there are more than 90 other really bright boys who had tutoring.

The really shit thing is that these kids doing a commute most adults wouldn't like a) are exhausted b) basically all come from families whose parents could have afforded to pay for a very good school near them but they wouldn't settle for very good and c) make the chances of a really bright boy in the local area who hasn't been tutored or (at the least) got parents who can do endless practice papers with them even more remote.

The worrying thing is that if he fails the 11+, there is every chance he will fail the admissions test for your secondary school.

You say he is a bright boy, and you don't seem to be worried that he won't get in to your school of choice, so my feeling is that this is a moot point.

No need to fraudulently tell him he's passed because it's so unlikely he'll fail!

Ha- well at least local BOYS get the chance @Hardbackwriter! Please tell me there is an equivalent option for girls in the same area?

It's an awful system that creates winners and losers (and those that can afford tutoring have an unfair advantage). I can't believe it hasn't been abolished countrywide.

If he doesn't pass after 2 years of tutoring he would not have thrived in a grammar school.

Lying to him is not the answer though. It would also make you look unhinged if you got caught out down the line! Either withdraw him from the exam or explain to him the result doesn't matter at all in his circumstances as he doesn't need it to stay on at his school.