...to think this extended maternity leave bollocks just needs to stop.

[ScreamedAtTheMichaelangelo]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-54089754

I can't be the only one to think the campaign has run its course and just needs to stop?

Labouring women are still not allowed to be with their partners in anything but an hour of the actual birth....the phrase 'bigger fish to fry' can't help but spring to mind.....

My eldest was a nicu baby a few years ago. That was hell and we will deal with her disability our whole lives.

This. We had two months of maternity dragging between home and NNICU. The remainder was spent between consultant appointments, follow ups etc, which eventually turned into regular appointments because of her disability. She didn’t meet close family for months and wasn’t able to be left with them until she was over 3. Not to mention the huge additional costs we bore from a stay in NNICU.

We managed a return to work despite all that. I’m wondering where all the petitions were for people in that position over the years?

Looking back through this thread, it's really strange how the people who are criticising MN for not being compassionate and kind enough are the ones getting sweary and abusive, isn't it?

Does #bekind just mean, "give me what I want. If you say no or disagree with me, I will KICK.OFF"?

Loads of empathetic posts here, with people sharing their experiences of having babies, recently or otherwise, but there is a teeny minority who think everyone's a bunch of bitches / bullies / unsupportive. It's clear as day that there have been sensitive and well thought out posts on here, with people taking the time to share their personal experiences. But, because it doesn't tally with the agenda to get more paid time off, those people are all bullies .

Again, the women who started his petition are probably my peer group, but they really are embarrassing themselves, as are some people on here tbh.

MintyMabel
There was a campaign and it there was finally some movement last year.

www.bliss.org.uk/news/2019/proposed-change-to-parental-leave-is-huge-step-forward

I wish we could have benefited from this proposed change. I doubt it will happen our current prime minister and judging by attitudes on this thread, probably from people who haven't been through it, I wouldn't be surprised if people would be against it because 'life isn't fair so suck it up'.

@LolaSmiles

MintyMabel There was a campaign and it there was finally some movement last year.

www.bliss.org.uk/news/2019/proposed-change-to-parental-leave-is-huge-step-forward

I wish we could have benefited from this proposed change. I doubt it will happen our current prime minister and judging by attitudes on this thread, probably from people who haven't been through it, I wouldn't be surprised if people would be against it because 'life isn't fair so suck it up'.

Are you reading the same thread as I am? Many posters have said this campaign, the bliss one, should br prioritised above the extended mat leave for baby groups and bonding with other parents petition. It is because so many people on here have had poorly babies in NICU, including me, that this petition is so abhorrent imo.

@SecretSpAD

*wow. the vitriol and total lack of compassion on this thread shows me why feminism is doomed. Women are even more judgemental and cruel to other women than men are. Way to uphold the patriarchy sisters. Divide and conquer*

What is actually going to doom feminism is one group of women demanding special treatment to the detriment of other groups of women.

Who do you think will be the people covering this extra time off work (because let's face it few employers are willing/able to hire someone for such a brief amount of time) so these women can get their baby yoga (whatever the fuck that is). It's women who
-have young children at home/in childcare who now spend less time with their young kids because of the pressures of working
-have slightly older children who may need support with being back at school/covid shit etc
-have elderly parents/other relatives to care for
-have no children but have been working fucking long days under extreme pressure for months to help out/cover for parents (though I'm used to women like me getting no sympathy so no feminism for us!)
-oh and men too, but they rarely count on MN anyway and certainly have no need to see their young children

I'm looking to hire someone to help me on a piece of work. I'm looking for a person who is older or male or one of my contacts/friends who are childfree or have older children.

100%

BigBlondeBimbo
Some people have, but there's still posters who seem to lack compassion and empathy.

I've got friends who've struggled to get support for postnatal depression during lockdown. They haven't been able to bond with their babies, they've not had their support network to fill in where mental health services would have been and it's been awful for them. I couldn't begrudge if they had a few weeks extra leave to get themselves in a better place and have something resembling a normal maternity leave.

There's not a limit on compassion, or there shouldn't be.

@LolaSmiles

BigBlondeBimbo Some people have, but there's still posters who seem to lack compassion and empathy.

I've got friends who've struggled to get support for postnatal depression during lockdown. They haven't been able to bond with their babies, they've not had their support network to fill in where mental health services would have been and it's been awful for them. I couldn't begrudge if they had a few weeks extra leave to get themselves in a better place and have something resembling a normal maternity leave.

There's not a limit on compassion, or there shouldn't be.

No indeed, but there is a limit on funding. And many people have stated on here that they believe the priority should be improvements to postnatal care, MH care and extended parental leave for those with very sick babies in hospital, over extending parental leave so that people can go to baby groups; that is what the petition in question said. It doesn't ask for compassion or a hand hold. In fact, a pp became quite irate that people said "sorry it has been such a tough time for new parents". It doesn't ask for improvements to postnatal care, or extended parental leave for those with sick babies. It is purely about going to baby groups as they are "vital" to babies' development. Tell that to someone whose baby is too sick to ever go to these groups. It also mentions bonding with other new parents . So, like, making mummy friends? Seriously? This is why people are a little incredulous.

I'm so glad to see this thread I thought I was just me who saw this on the news last night and couldn't get my head around how grabby it seems. If they are that bothered get their partners to take paternity leave?

As an employer who's going to pay for this? Like it's not hard enough juggling a member of staff on maternity I'm afraid if they carry on they won't have jobs, COVID has made it so much easier to make redundancies.

It's been shit for everyone! I've had operations delayed and have spent lockdown in chronic debilitating pain, people are missing cancer appointments, missing relatives funerals and they are moaning about a toddler group?

I had a terrible first mat leave With a baby who cried full time so I couldn’t go to baby groups - I am extremely jealous of friends of mine who had their husbands home throughout this year with a newborn and can’t stop thinking about how much easier it would’ve made it for me.
Obviously not everyone had partners home - however my point is you get the hand you’ve been dealt. It’s good for some, bad for others -some people found mat leave in Covid much better because of partners help. Some will have found it worse.

I had a 1 and 3 year old at home while both my husband and I were working full time - if I had been on mat leave my life would’ve been a LOT easier to take the pressure of both working.

I do not support this petition.

!y My husband didn't get any extra time off due to lockdown. Two weeks and he was back. It was tough going through the early days on my own with 3 children and no outside support.
But how is an extra 3 months going to help me?

At least women can have their husbands there for the “crucial moment”. I had to receive the news that I have advanced cancer without my husband there at all. I’d love an extra 3 months with him. Not going to happen. 2020 has been shit for many. Cancer has made it even shittier.

Bloody hell yellowjacket. I’m so sorry to hear that. Was he not allowed to be there? That’s horrendous.

Oh @Yellowjacket, that’s awful. It’s beyond cruel. 💐

I had my baby boy in April and its been a roller-coaster of emotions..

Bad points:

All my appointments got cancelled overnight

Was hard keeping up with the rules and it felt very overwhelming

DH couldn't be with me when I was induced, had to do it alone until in active labour. It was like he was dropping me off at the airport.

DH couldn't visit us until I was discharged.

When I had to go back for jaundice treatment a few days later I had to go alone again, found it mentally tough.

Can't use normal services that would take place like getting baby weighed etc...

No baby clubs, I wasnt that fussed about going to any but would have made the effort and would have been nice to try and make friends.

The first few weeks were tough was hard to buy nappies and forumla etc....

However there are good points:

No annoying visitors interfering, was lovely and peaceful

Time for me and DH to bond with our son

DH was furloughed so got 2 months off instead of 2 weeks. Was a great help and we shared the night feeds etc... Sleep deprevation was tougher then I ever thought!

Made some lovely friends with neighbours who helped me out

I'm taking a year off for MAT leave and looking forward to returning to work but know I'll find it hard like most new mums must feel.

I don't feel we need an extra 3 months paid MAT leave personally. I just feel that if it's difficult to sort childcare due to covid you should be supported. I can't look around my local nursery or childminders at the moment.

I'm not gonna lie though if you qualify for an extra 3 months MAT leave paid you are not gonna turn it down.

dh back to work the day after each birth
It's a different world now innit? 25 years ago my husband took the morning off work to bring us home - back to work by 2pm. Same with dd2, 2 years later. No grandparents around, no friends as recently moved into new area for work. Just NOBODY to call on for even emergency support, let alone a bit of friendly company. Baby yoga and baby swimming and baby 'socialising' not even on the close horizon. I mean, what's that about? I don't believe it's vital for their development. Mine never did any of that stuff. None of my peers children did any of that stuff. Yet their intellectual and emotional development has not suffered one iota. My generation did not have baby groups, my mother's didn't, and her parents didn't. Throughput the past x thousand years, children have been born and raised, and they have flourished, without any input at all from 'baby groups' or baby swimming, or whatever it might be. Babies thrive from positive input from their parents. Baby groups are harmless fun. But they will not shape your baby's character or sense of self. You will.

My twins were 4 months when lockdown started, yes we've done less stuff but where does it end? Lockdown was 6 months, surely they could extend it by that? And if there's a local lockdown then they add it on a bit? Perhaps we can just give EVERYONE 6 months off to make up for lockdown!!!!

I think it's much more important to give parents whose children are hospitalised at birth extra time. DS was in for 13 weeks then in and out up until 6 months then in from 10-15 months. I had to write my job because I knew that at the end of my may leave, I wouldn't be able to leave him and in fact, he was rehospitalised the week my paid mat leave would have ended. THOSE are the parents who have lost valuable time with their babies, and especially during lockdown with many hospitals reducing the time parents can be there, limiting it to one parent. I can't imagine sitting besides DSs ventilator being told by drs twice a day he might die ALONE yes that's the reality for many, and worse. Yes "ooh but I couldn't go to baby group" is supposed to carry weight?

@LolaSmiles

BigBlondeBimbo Some people have, but there's still posters who seem to lack compassion and empathy.

I've got friends who've struggled to get support for postnatal depression during lockdown. They haven't been able to bond with their babies, they've not had their support network to fill in where mental health services would have been and it's been awful for them. I couldn't begrudge if they had a few weeks extra leave to get themselves in a better place and have something resembling a normal maternity leave.

There's not a limit on compassion, or there shouldn't be.

If their mental health is too poor for them to return to work, they need to speak to the GP / HV etc to get signed off sick and get some support. 3 extra months at home isn't going to magically fix their struggles.

what many new mums are fortunate enough not to realise is that feeling robbed of maternity leave is the reality for a number of us regardless of a pandemic

Yup. My baby was born with unexpected and life changing disabilities. Proper took the shine off maternity leave for me. So much so that I couldn't go back to work at all and had to care for my disabled daughter 24/7 for the past 30 years. Ho hum. So that was a bit of a disappointment then. So what do I get for that? Oh, I know! Delay my state pension for 6 years. Chucked away my career (willingly) to care for my disabled daughter, thus saving taxpayers a lot of cash. And then have my state pension pulled with no notice at all. What do I get for that then?

I envy you new mums who have had NT babies under lockdown.

I wish that had been my only challenge. I'm not writing this just for me. Many people will read this who are in this, or a close situation. I'm writing it mostly for them

SleepingStandingUp

I’ve never thought of baby classes being for the baby, they are definitely for the parent, in terms of socialisation and something to alleviate the boredom.
So as the parent of a toddler during lockdown I did miss that aspect. And it’s harder with a toddler than a baby as you have to find ways to entertain them, whereas with a small baby you can sit on the sofa cuddling them while binging on Netflix. As it stood I spent lockdown trying to entertain a toddler, homeschooling a 5 year old and working from home. I would have LOVED to have been on maternity leave with just a newborn.

Second baby born in may

Luckily I wasn’t planning on any baby groups this time

Wish DH had been made to WFH but no such joy there

Firstborn was seriously ill and in GOSH for a while just as baby had been born so my maternity leave this time round has been shit but nothing to do with COVID really

Clickandforget 100% agree with your posts.

I was back at work when dc1 was 12 weeks old - now that was tough, physically and mentally. Another 40 weeks off (as is possible now) would have felt like I’d won the lottery.

My dc 3 was a prem baby, in NICU for several weeks, so once I was discharged, the next part of my ML was spent expressing milk and doing a 50 mile round trip to the hospital each day, with two young children in tow. Dh was back at work by then of course. That is what tough looks like. And even more so for you, Clickandforget because your child has life long disabilities.

Oh and the point about baby yoga and other classes - absolutely, those things just didn’t exist. The most you got was perhaps a mum and baby drop in at the church hall. But of course none of those things are necessary... they’re not for the baby, they’re a social opportunity for the parent - and we’ve all missed out on social opportunities. All those kinds of groups have become big business so of course they’re marketing themselves as vitally important to try to make you feel you’re missing out but they really aren’t. A baby will thrive being loved and nurtured at home - if you’re lucky enough that your partner is home longer than the day of the birth then that’s a double whammy

Note that none of us who had our babies back in the day are suggesting that maternity and paternity rights should be reduced. We’re glad that mums having babies now have it so much easier with ML four times longer than it used to be, the option for shared parental leave etc. These things are great. I would also support special consideration for parents of prem babies - mine was only in hospital for a matter of weeks but I know how damn hard and stressful it is, and some babies are in for months.

But honestly, it’s just an embarrassment to see the self serving attitude behind this petition. It’s got naff all to do with supporting women’s health or babies’ well being. It’s all about an overblown sense of entitlement that new mums who can already have up to a year off work, bonding with their baby, have had to spend some of that time with baby groups and classes shut. Shameful.

@Yellowjacket so sorry. A truly shit year indeed.

@ClickandForget the point of baby groups is to help new mums get out, meet other people with young children and to help prevent social isolation - which was just as much a problem 30 years ago as it is today. So yes, 2020 had been tough for new mums in this respect. One can sympathise with that even if you dont support the call for extended maternity leave.

And if in those extra three months you don’t get the opportunity to have those baby classes etc and it doesn’t pan out how you wanted, then what? Do you want another three months? What about after that, should it just keep going? Where does it end.

I’ve been working as a nurse throughout, j would quite like three months off.