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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

...to think this extended maternity leave bollocks just needs to stop.

362 replies

ScreamedAtTheMichaelangelo · 11/09/2020 14:45

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-54089754

I can't be the only one to think the campaign has run its course and just needs to stop?

Labouring women are still not allowed to be with their partners in anything but an hour of the actual birth....the phrase 'bigger fish to fry' can't help but spring to mind.....

OP posts:
b0redb0redb0red · 12/09/2020 04:05

Total sympathy for anyone who has had a baby during the last few months. Support for new mothers is shit at the best of times, so I can't bear to think how many desperate women must be falling through the cracks at the moment. But another couple of months of maternity leave isn't going to address any of the actual issues.

Incidentally, the baby activities industry really has done a marvellous job of promoting itself if people think that socialising with other babies at baby groups is "vital" to a baby's develoment!

Eminybob · 12/09/2020 05:40

Just to address a couple of Rae5647’s points.

Neither of my dc had been left with anyone, or had more than a couple of hours settling in with nursery before they started going at age 1 when I returned to work. Long days, 7.30 until 6 to allow me to work.
THEY WERE BOTH FINE.
I didn’t do much in the way of baby groups with DS2 as I was suffering from PND and anxiety. HE WAS FINE.
He also only had a couple of weeks at nursery before lockdown, then returned with no additional settling in afterwards. HE WAS FINE.

All my annual leave this year has been used to provide homeschooling for DS1 and childcare. My holidays were cancelled, and we spent most of the time indoors. Should I ask my employer to provide me with extra annual leave next year as I didn’t get to fully appreciate it this year? No, because that’s daft. But that’s essentially equivalent to what the petition is asking.

Peony9876 · 12/09/2020 05:52

I agree Eminybob. I have been on maternity leave this year but I actually felt grateful that I had the time off and did not have to juggle childcare with homeschooling. I think that parents that have had toddlers to look after whilst they work had it much harder.

What the government needs to do is to provide more support for the childcare sector to allow women to get back to work. This is going to be a huge issue in the future with many nurseries closing because they are not financially viable.

Valwillgo · 12/09/2020 06:05

Funnily enough I was thinking the same as OP when I saw this thread. I’ve just clicked onto MN after reading the BBC article with a picture of a baby and the headline “We’ve been forgotten, abandoned”.

I was expecting to read about some horror in a refugee camp.

Wheneverwhereve · 12/09/2020 06:09

”Everyone has made sacrifices. The family who couldn't be at their 13 year olds bedside and funeral put in perspective for me.”

This

”I know MN doesn't like a 'race to the bottom' but I think what many new mums are fortunate enough not to realise is that feeling robbed of maternity leave is the reality for a number of us regardless of a pandemic.“

And This

noonelikesuswedontcare · 12/09/2020 06:27

I had a baby in Jan, so due back 21st Sept. The alert phase kicked in since lockdown. Luckily I've managed, I've still enjoyed my baby, but I do think it's due to having an older child. My baby at least had a sibling to watch. I had to entertain them and in the process baby was always with us. My DH was out working, so I had to do it solo. I was very lucky to have had an easy birth. My first birth was brutal.

My parents / MIL did visit lots with baby one but they aren't helpful but it's company, so not having them during lockdown was ok.

It has been bad for aftercare. I needed some tests as soon as arranged everything stopped. Sadly my baby has a condition picked up by the heel prick. I have no idea whether I can get them now or are things running yet and whilst I'm not Covid phobia, is the hospital ok to visit yet ?

PolarBearStrength · 12/09/2020 06:37

I feel for women who have had babies in lockdown and I selfishly worry about what will be happening with lockdowns and restrictions when DD arrives this autumn/winter. However in the grand scheme of things, having to stay at home seems like a bizarre reason to demand more leave... to stay at home longer. Baby classes etc. are a relatively new idea and plenty of women do just fine without them. It does all come across as rather middle class hand-wringing.

stoptheworldiwant2getoff · 12/09/2020 06:41

I'm about to have baby no 2 and think it's ridiculous. Actually there were too many baby groups and stuff with people from NCT that I didn't really want to go to with my first. I just wanted to chill with my new baby be it in a park/coffee shop or at home which mostly these will have been able to do. The most severe lockdown wouldn't have taken up the full maternity. So yeah hey a grip, if you and your family have survived this then you're in an ok position!!

Floralbean · 12/09/2020 06:56

Whether or not you support the three month extension most people would agree with the other points around maternity, mental health and childcare etc. So some good has come from it.

Well yes, but people aren't disagreeing with those, just the need for 3 months extra paid maternity leave.

DateLoaf · 12/09/2020 07:07

I would support this. Why not? I think for many women the reality of non COVID mat leave is not at all rosy for a lot of reasons, but at the same time I absolutely can see the impact of COVID has been very very hard for new mums (and to an extent new dads).

Similarly it has also been horrendous for working parents. Non-working parents. BAME parents. Parents shielding. Parents of kid who need shielding. Parents with MH difficulties. Separating parents. Co parenting parents. Single parents. Parents of kids with additional needs. Parents with money worries, relationship difficulties, stress of whatever kind. The list goes on.

Any of which issues can also apply to new mums and dads on top of the known very difficult specifics with new parenting at a time of COVID.

Unfortunately i don’t think a short extension to mat leave will make much of a difference as I see COVID restrictions carrying on, but I would support that or anything that can be done at central government level to better support new parents through this continuing very hard time. Better support for parents = better outcomes for children. We should all want this.

Sending solidarity to new mums from an old mumSmile. Also great post Rae5647

crazycatlady7 · 12/09/2020 07:09

I don't agree with the reasons the petition was set up. However having a baby in these times has been hard. Not having a support network, my DH loosing his job- it's impacted on us- 3 more months won't change this.

However finding childcare to return to work is so hard as places are shut or not taking additional children... so my helpful employer has suggested reducing my hours but that impacts us as a family in a financial way.... and we are now looking at me leaving my job... as we would be better off with me at home than working half my contracted hours.... like so many mothers I'm being forced out of a job I could do if childcare was available. The government wants us back in work so something here needs to be done. (My job can be done at home... yes it would be a challenge with a baby under my feet but it's just until a place comes available for my child... but we have no idea how long that will be)

nicebreeze · 12/09/2020 07:17

@Rae5647

Wow completely ignorant comments here! It’s nothing like “phoning in sick for three months”.

There are many complex issues arising from COVID for new mums and babies. Like I say unless you are living this, you can’t possibly appreciate it.

All aftercare was dropped, no treatment for birth injuries, pnd, no breastfeeding support - no support full stop. Babies have never been looked after by anyone else and don’t know their own grandparents. This is not like normal times where it is hard enough going back to work. Any idea how hard it is to drop a baby off at a nursery when they’ve barely left the living room for 6 months and have no idea other humans existed? Traumatising for everyone. Can you appreciate how hard it is to accept mentally that you’re putting your elderly parents at risk of COVID by having them babysit so you can go back to work?

New mums have received ZERO support. None of support they were supposed to get to help bring a baby into the world and zero support financially.

I don’t see Why you would be riled about trying to help vulnerable mothers through the worst pandemic in 100 years. How does it affect you exactly?

Have some compassion.

I've known three people well who have had newborns during lockdown (two gave birth in early April, during lockdown itself) and your post does not ring true at all.

They have massively struggled with the lack of support, NHS and otherwise, but have made the most of the time they've had at home in the early weeks (with and without partners), have most definitely not been stuck on the living room all their lives and have had plenty of time with grandparents and other family and have some wonderful bonds because I think the pandemic and lockdown forced everyone to slow down a bit and shift priorities slightly.

If anything the importance of nursery or other childcare is heightened by the pandemic - the socialising being missed at baby groups can happen here

StepAwayFromGoogle · 12/09/2020 07:20

Honestly, it makes me cross, YANBU. My SIL had a baby just before lockdown and keeps circulating the petition. On the grounds that she hasn't been to baby groups and her baby isn't 'socialised', and she hasn't had a 'normal' mat leave. Babies don't need to be socialised, FFS, mat leave is so mother and baby can bond, not so you can go to baby sensory and have coffee with your buddies!!! Grrr.
The last six months have been horrendous for working parents with young children but I haven't seen any petitions circulating asking for additional holiday leave to allow us a break from the 24/7 relentlessness that has characterised 2020. It's shit for everyone, but why new mums think they need to be compensated for that is beyond me.

nicebreeze · 12/09/2020 07:23

@Bellesavage

I've had my mat leave during lockdown. It's been horrible, no baby groups, no health visitor support, no breastfeeding advice, no grandparents, no medical support at all. It's been very very lonely. Thank goodness I'm a second time parent so I felt like I knew what to do vaguely. I wish I had have extended my mat leave now but I'm back at work. Like a pp said, nursery drop off is horrible, more so than with my first, as my baby has never really seen other adults or babies having been stuck in our house (and mainly one room as DH has needed house quiet for work) for months. I also think it's horribly unfair the maternity exemption hasn't been extended.
With complete kindness and not trying to troll or upset you - haven't you and the baby been out since lockdown was eased?

I appreciated PND, anxiety etc can make this hard (I have painful first hand experience of this) but that's a separate issue entirely to lockdown keeping you and baby in the living room

LassoOfTruth · 12/09/2020 07:25

Having had my 2nd baby in lockdown I agree that the reduced maternity care and lack of postnatal support have been shit. Having my DH sent home 1hr after DS’s birth (very long labour, EMC) was horrible. Being sent home myself so soon with a badly-healing C-section incision and no GP to go to, was shit. Baby groups were a lifesaver for me during my first maternity leave, and obviously we’ve had none of that available this time. But I think this petition is bonkers! Instead we need to be asking why we’re such an afterthought - not the only non-Covid patients suffering during this I know - but missing out on scans, and being sent home with so little medical follow up/support - it’s not good enough. I’m so glad this wasn’t my first pregnancy and do feel for the first time mums in this situation.

MitziK · 12/09/2020 07:31

So they're basically pissed off about having to spend their 'time off' like a poor person?

Oh, well.

StepAwayFromGoogle · 12/09/2020 07:32

Whilst I get everyone's comments about woeful maternity care, how will extending mat leave by three months correct that?

NellWilsonsWhiteHair · 12/09/2020 07:47

Coincidentally, the introspection or lockdown for me (yes, whilst working and single-parenting two children) actually gave me the right space to reflect on how difficult my mat leave with DC1 was, and grieve what it wasn’t, and accept it. This wasn’t big-deal stuff in the grand scheme of things (no life-changing diagnoses, abusive partner, bereavement), but there was so much disappointment for both of us.

I think this is such a common reality of motherhood, esp FTM, and a lot of that is being channelled into this petition (and indeed this thread) and is why it seems illogical and hard to defend. The reality of having a baby is often not what we dreamed of in pregnancy, often for reasons beyond our control. Mothers are often isolated and unsupported. Postnatal care is often shit. Families and friends are often less available/interested than expected or hoped. And then there are all the times when something very specific and concrete ‘goes wrong’ - baby is seriously unwell, trauma in the wider family, homelessness, global pandemic... some parts of this are things to campaign about, some parts are things to grieve and move forward. Trying to create a hierarchy of hardship helps nobody.

With all due respect, I think it’s much less likely that mothers of (often not that much) older children don’t understand the reality of being on maternity leave during covid, and much more likely that mothers who are in this situation don’t understand the reality of being a mother of older children during covid. The suggestion that settling at childcare is harder for eg a nearly-1yo who has never been left before vs maybe an 18mo who hasn’t been left in five months and won’t remember it; the suggestion that lack of available childcare/difficulty working out which available childcare is OK enough is an issue for families who are coming to the end of mat leave, when of course it’s equally an issue for families where the previous arrangements are no longer available (grandparents, childcare provision closing down due to loss of funds). These dismissals of the problems older children and their parents face must be a driver in the dismissive responses made in return.

Al1Langdownthecleghole · 12/09/2020 07:57

Incidentally, the baby activities industry really has done a marvellous job of promoting itself if people think that socialising with other babies at baby groups is "vital" to a baby's develoment!

I think this is an important point. Arguably baby groups can help some mothers mental health, but at the same time they can be very damaging for any new mums left feeling pressured and inadequate.

Babies are not puppies. They don't need socialising, they benefit from quality time one-on-one. And while lockdown and Covid have caused many problems (I say that as someone who lost my DM) it has also given space for that quality time to a lot of families.

It's a perspective that perhaps comes through the lens of having further children and experience of juggling work and family life through babies, toddlers, primary school and teens, but my honest and heartfelt advice to any new mums during this time is this. Regardless of how hard the lack of support has been; embrace this time if you possibly can, enjoy it and appreciate it. In a few years you will understand why.

nicebreeze · 12/09/2020 08:16

@Monkeynuts18

*wow. the vitriol and total lack of compassion on this thread shows me why feminism is doomed. Women are even more judgemental and cruel to other women than men are. Way to uphold the patriarchy sisters. Divide and conquer.*

Don’t you dare.

I’m horrified by the effect the entire crisis has had on women. And it’s going to get worse as we head for a no-deal Brexit.

Women are more likely to be furloughed and significantly more likely to lose their jobs, either as a result of being employed in hard-hit sectors or as a result of discrimination; they are bearing the brunt of juggling work, childcare and domestic chores, while starting from a position of economic disadvantage. The Fawcett Society estimates the crisis could set women’s workplace equality back by decades.

The changes to maternity services and the dearth of support services for new mothers has been an outrage, as well as the lack of access to family planning services, fertility services and other women’s healthcare.

Women have been trapped with abusers and rapists, unable to leave or access help. Economic challenges pose a massive threat to women’s work and expose them to increased risk of exploitation and abuse. Girls and women facing severe economic crises are more likely to take on dangerous work for survival.

Don’t you dare call me, or anyone else, a bad feminist just because we don’t think this is a fantastic idea. Frankly I’m surprised that any woman who’s lucky enough to have a job can stand back, look at this utterly catastrophic situation (because don’t kid yourself - that’s what this is) and think ‘yep, the best possible use of government money and economic resources right now is to pay me to have three more months off work.’

Absolutely right
BarcelonaBetty · 12/09/2020 08:45

@Rae5647 can you not take 3 months unpaid. I know that when my DS was born I was able to do this. Not sure if the system has changed but if taking 4 months unpaid would help you stay in work in the long term it might be something to look into

BarcelonaBetty · 12/09/2020 08:49

Also you said you had "zero support financially" do you mean by this?
Surely you must have received maternity allowance, how does this equate to zero support financially?

CatkinToadflax · 12/09/2020 08:54

@Rae5647

Have you had a baby during or shortly before the pandemic? If not, you can’t really sympathise.
No I didn’t. But I did have maternity leave 15 years ago which only lasted 6 months. 4 of those months were spent sitting by my baby’s incubator in NICU, wondering if he’d ever come home. I then had to resign from my job because it was completely impossible to return to work with such a premature baby at home and no chance of putting him into childcare.

I’m delighted that apparently mums of prems will be getting a better deal, but right now they don’t, and 15 years ago we certainly didn’t as maternity leave was so much shorter.

I do have sympathy for the struggles faced by new parents in lockdown, really I do, but we’ve all had a rubbish time over these past few months. My dad died during lockdown and none of us could be with him at the end or have a funeral for him. It’s crap. It’s horrible. But given the state of the country at the moment, I don’t see how extending maternity leave by 3 months is feasible. Could I have another 3 months with my dad please? Sadly that isn’t feasible either. Sad

Giningit · 12/09/2020 09:32

It all just comes across as a bit grabby. I’ve seen FB posts complaining that they never got to go to baby groups. So what? Pull on your big girl pants and get on with it. Count yourselves lucky that you still have a job to go back to. Many people have suffered much worse consequences of the pandemic and many employers are struggling, so probably wouldn’t be able to afford this.

Legseleven1990 · 12/09/2020 09:48

“... new parents and babies are confined to their homes with no social interaction which will ultimately impact on the development of children.”*

This does not just apply to new parents. I have had a baby during lockdown, but also have a 3yo and a 6yo. The biggest impact was on the 6yo.

I sympathise greatly with the severe lack of postnatal care you received. However, this is not just down to lockdown. Postnatal care is desperately lacking in this country to the point I noticed no difference in the care I received after my first 2 babies and my lockdown baby. After my second baby I had a prolapse I am still waiting for a physio appointment for (over 3 years now) and after my first I had retained placenta that was missed that eventually caused sepsis and for me to go into toxic shock after numerous trips to the doctor and my concerns being dismissed. After my lockdown baby, I had a hemorrhage on the ward on my own. Had literally out my baby down 10 seconds before collapsing and hitting the floor in a pool of blood - it was one of the other mums who helped me as I went unnoticed by hospital staff (as they were so overworked and understaffed, this is not a dig they are doing fantastic work) and my partner was not allowed with me.

I'm not saying this at all as a race to the bottom. I'm just highlighting there are so many issues regarding postnatal care. Women have been badly down in the care they receive. Read through the pp to see how countless others have suffered. The issues you're describing are not specific to lockdown, maybe because this is your first you haven't realised the dire state postnatal care is in.

3 extra months of mat leave won't fix these issues. Youd gain more sympathy if you were campaigning to improve postnatal care instead as this is greatly needed and would help all mums. That is something I would greatly support and have actively been supporting. I also support birthing partners being allowed in as I have never felt more afraid and alone as I did giving birth during lockdown. If if my dh had been with me I feel like I would have received much better care.