My son is a bully and I don’t know what to do

[AshamedAndAfraid]

Posting here for traffic. My DS (12) has ADHD and ODD. He has always been difficult but we’ve raised him in a good, solid, happy home. Been married to my DH for 16 years, my childhood sweetheart. Lived in the same house for 10 years in an upmarket lovely area. It’s a happy, healthy home and our children have always been surrounded with love. Our two younger children are star pupils, they are kind and well liked. They’re sensitive and both have beautiful hearts. We’ve never had so much as a phone call from the school about either of them. Our eldest on the other hand is heading towards a very bleak future.

Since reception we’ve had nothing but trouble. Fighting at school. Breaking things. Being disruptive and rude. When he started secondary school things spiralled out of control. Detention at least 3 times a week. He is rude and disrespectful to his teachers and is very destructive. He has also become the most horrendous bully. He has a group of friends who come from rocky backgrounds. Two of them are known to social services. They are the kind of kids you read about on the news, the type of 12 year olds involved in stabbings and gangs. We have done everything we can to keep him away from them. The school has tried to intervene too. They prey on vulnerable children and make life hell for other boys at school. My son picks on boys who are overweight, he’s even been in a fight with a child with autism. On Tuesday he assaulted a boy on the bus. Punched him in the face because he had a speech impediment. I am so ashamed. He has been given a fixed term exclusion because he was in uniform and the boy’s parents informed the school, they want to report him to the police. Am I a terrible mum for hoping they do? I don’t know how else to get through to him.

I am scared for his future. I am scared for my future. I am tired of my other DS being assaulted on a daily basis. He has been pushed down the stairs. His brother broke his thumb over lockdown. I am tired of him terrorising our family. I am constantly being called an idiot, stupid, annoying. He has no respect for anyone or anything. His room has been smashed up. He breaks things for fun. Worst of all, he never shows any remorse. He often tries not to smile when we try and talk to him about something awful he has done. Like it’s all a big joke.

Where the hell did I go so wrong? I had post natal depression after he was born, is this my fault? I did get help. I tried my best but it was a struggle. I love my son but I also hate him for what he is doing to us.

He is under the care of a psychiatrist at CAMHS. I have emailed him to ask for advice. We have been turned down repeatedly for therapy.

Please help me figure out what to do. My DH and I are very aware of how bad this is and we are willing to do anything to make this better.

Has medication ever been considered?

If you think that the police may be able to get through to your son, perhaps you could contact them yourself, or support the other child's parents in contacting them, @AshamedAndAfraid?

I'm sorry that I don't have any more advice to offer, but I just wanted to say that you are NOT a failure as a mum - it sounds as if you have tried, and are still trying, everything you can think of, to help your son.

I had PND after all three of my dc were born, so I know what a struggle it is - but you DID do your best, I am sure. I was struck by what you said about loving him but hating him for what he is doing - I wonder if it might help you feel a bit better if you reframe that as "I love him, but I hate his behaviour"?

I hope that someone with more experience and knowledge will come along soon, to help you - but I just wanted you to know that I have read this, and am sending you good thoughts. If you want to vent, and you think I could help, please do.

I would make significant sacrifices for the sake of paying for private therapy. Children with ADHD and ODD can have significant difficulty regulating their emotions, controlling their impulses, future planning and displaying appropriate emotions. He needs help in learning how to do these things.

Speak to the psychiatrist at CAMHS about a recommendation for a therapist and then get him into sessions. Even if it means sacrifices in other areas - there can’t be much that is more vital for your family than dealing with this.

Medication for ADHD? Then you might be able to get through to him with behaviour and consequences as he will be able to take it in properly if maybe his mind slows down a bit. It sounds really hard

@Finfintytint Yes, he has been on ADHD meds since he was 8.

@SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius thank you so much for the lovely response. You are right, I shouldn’t have written that. I really do mean I hate his behaviour.

@User3627290 Thank you, I have just applied for DLA to help pay for therapy. I’m hoping it comes through soon. If not we will do everything we can to pay for it ourselves. Any suggestions for a specific kind of therapy? There are so many different schools of thought out there I just don’t know what is best.

No advice sorry but didn't want to read and run. This sounds so difficult and to be honest is my worst nightmare.

From what you say about your family and your other children, it doesn't sound like you are doing anything wrong or could do anything particularly (of course I can't know that for sure but it's my impression).

I firmly believe in the influence of both nature and nurture, and unfortunately I think some people are simply born without much capacity for compassion and kindness, despite a good upbringing. I think all you can do is to keep parenting him consistently, keep enforcing punishments/consequences, make clear to the school and the other parents that you don't condone his behaviour.

And keep pushing CAMHS and any other services you can think of for help, as you are clearly not getting what you need.

Hopefully as he matures he can learn to use his traits to better effect. I wonder if you can steer him towards this e.g. point out that it might be more rewarding to use his power over others not to bully but to learn to become a strong leader, successful in what he wants to do etc.

Good luck and I really feel for you

This is one very angry boy OP.
Have a private word with your GP in which you detail everything you've said here then make another appointment and take your son along to see the same GP.
He/She will be able to access counselling, anger management intervention and signpost other support systems desperately needed for the family.
And what consequences does your son receive for his awful behaviour?

You sound very aware of his behaviour and are not making excuses for him. I agree with pp’s that you need to get him assessed for medication and pay for private therapy until he can be referred on the nhs as the waiting lists are long. If I had a child that was purposely hurting my other children, then I would also contact social services to ask for support. Your other ds shouldn’t be living in fear and getting his fingers broken or being regularly attacked as it sounds like it goes way beyond normal sibling fighting. You have a responsibility to your other children to protect them so they feel safe in their own home.

I really regret I can't advise on this difficult situation, but out of concern for you and the other children you must seek help.

I hope you can find a way forward.

With very best wishes.

they want to report him to the police. Am I a terrible mum for hoping they do? I don’t know how else to get through to him.

You're not terrible at all - as a parent I'd probably feel the same way because you aren't able to prevent him making these choices and the police may have resources to help steer him in another direction.

Speak to your GP openly about how difficult things are, liaise with school about how you can move forward. Therapy sounds like it could be a challenge but could also offer some real help, so push for that with CAMHS, and ask school for advice re therapy, too, as our nearest ones use a centre in our local town for young adult and children's services.

I'd definitely support the Police having a word with him.

Try Ross Greene's Explosive Child book and Lives in the Balance website, it's a different type of parenting for kids who don't respond to typical 'consequences' or carrot and stick.

@DisappearingGirl thank you for your message. The school knows we back them 100% and we have a wonderful relationship with them. I will keep fighting CAMHS. He has an EHCP so we have regular contact with all sorts of people. We just keep being told he won’t get therapy unless he is a danger to himself. They don’t see his behaviour as dangerous enough for therapy. Blows my mind!

@pallasathena Thank you. I will contact our GP and see if they can help. We normally just go straight to CAMHS but it might be good to go back to square one again. Gosh, we have really tried everything. He hasn’t had a phone in a year. It was taken away after he bullied someone online. We have stopped replacing the things he breaks. We regularly change passwords on laptops and devices so he can’t access them when he misbehaves. We ground him regularly but he just runs away. We take away pocket money. We send him to stay with family which he really hates! We’ve done this a few times. They live in the country so he has nowhere to run off to. We’ve tried so many things.

Have you considered contacting Social Services and explained you can no longer keep your younger DC safe from him. Sadly I think when (if) you start threatening to sign him over into their care you may start receiving some additional support.

This is about funding no doubt, them supporting you is cheaper than him being in the care of SS...

My DN has the same diagnosis but without supportive loving parents. After threatening her Mum with a knife at 13/14 she has been in residential care since - and been excluded from some!

You need to stop asking and start shouting for support and how you can't keep him etc. Awful but it seems to be the only way to access additional support.

I haven't been in a situation anything like yours so I hesitate to give advice. But your PND is not likely to be the cause of his behaviour now, so don't blame yourself for how he is. If you have been loving and not bullied him, then it's likely to be some hormonal imbalance.

It's easier said than done, and I haven't had a violent child, but if ever my DC behaved meanly to others I really spent as much time as I needed to getting through to them how it felt to be on the receiving end of that behaviour. I'd mimic their cruel tone of voice and language, and sound like i meant it, keeping eye-contact with them. It really shocked them. I have done that with other people's DC in my care too, if they bully. You see the shock in their eyes when they realise how horrible it feels to be victimised. Then you reassure them that you didn't mean it - you just said it for effect. But they did mean it and the person on the receiving end didn;t get the reassurance they now have, they just had to feel that fear.
Then I would insist - absolutely insist and take all the time in the world to get answers to difficult questions:
Why did you pick on him?
Why did you think it was OK to punch him?
How do you think he felt to be bullied?
How do you think he felt to be punched?
How do you think he is feeling right now?
What can you think to do that would make him feel better?
What could you do to stop him feeling afraid?
What could you do to try and understand better how it feels to be him?
What sort of behaviour does he deserve to receive from people around him?

That sort of question, asked in a very calm manner but with absolute resolution. Nothing is happening - not dinner, not TV, not homework, not even turning up for school on time, until every question has been answered. Listen very calmly and carefully to his answers and probe more deeply at each one, again sounding very calm and non judgemental. But never ever letting him off the hook.
I would make him write a letter of very carefully worded and genuine apology, send a carefully chosen present bought with his own money and zoom chat this boy to apologise in person if the boy agrees.

I would also say that I will get on the bus and sit beside my son, loudly letting everyone know I'm his mum and he needs my help to behave well, if I ever hear he does anything similar again. I would also get him to promise to keep an eye out for his victim and ensure no one ever bullies him or anyone like him again. I'd say (and mean) that I might hop on the bus at any time, to check that he is sticking to his promise.

Being a loving mum 99.9% of the time and an absolute fire-breathing dragon if they mistreat others works well because they never expect to see that side of you. And they really get a shock when they realise you won;t give up. Ever. until they change their ways.

I would change his school of possible also try different meds the excessive aggression could maybe be a side affect

Honestly it sounds like both he and you need a lot more support with his ADHD and ODD.

As a pp has said.
Children with ADHD and ODD can have significant difficulty regulating their emotions, controlling their impulses, future planning and displaying appropriate emotions. He needs help in learning how to do these things.

Start putting a lot more pressure on CAMHS to support you both, have a review of his meds and if at all possible find the money for a private therapist to support him and you.

It is very hard living with a dc with ADHD when things aren't going well. It can suck up all the oxygen in the room.

There are a number of recommended therapies for families in your situations

www.google.com/amp/s/www.additudemag.com/oppositional-defiant-disorder-odd-treatment/amp/

While it isn't okay to excuse the behavior it is also ok to acknowledge that your dc didn't choose this either. Their lives would be so much better if they had a different brain and they didn't get to choose the one they have.

I'm not sure how helpful the police are going to be as the more rational decision making part of his brain doesn't function that well , particularly under stress. Which means that he is unlikely to carry over the thoughts about needing to stay out of police trouble when focused on other things.

Also he is a danger to himself he is putting himself in high risk situations with a significant chance of someone hurting him back at some point.

Ah op . Another one with no expert advice, but didn't want to read and run.

I was bullied at school and my kids being bullied is one of my biggest fears. Another one is them becoming the bully. So hard for you.

I think the advice you've had on here re therapy and CAMHS is good. His ADHD, although no excuse for punching kids who have speech impediments etc, probably is a big contributing factor and with the right care from a specialist, hopefully he can start to work on things.

This might sound incredibly naive, seeing as his problems are obviously now on the more serious side of things, but I'm a big believer in sports and physical activity as a way of people, whatever their age, feeling better and doing better in all aspects of their lives; not just physical fitness. Does he like any sports in particular? Or maybe something else, like music or art?

Hi op, I’m sorry you are going through such a tough time with him.
Firstly, I would be very clear with the other family you are taking this seriously and supporting them fully.
Secondly, I would ensure DS was aware of the conversation, and witnessed it to some degree but maybe away from direct sight of the family if you think he might not be a Uk to remain civil.
Thirdly, yes talk to your GP. Make a total nuisance of yourself until you are given support. You have such a small window until the full force of teenage years hit. It needs to happen now.
Lastly, have you considered moving him away from his friendship group? New start somewhere. If he was mine I would pull him out of school and home school him but I am a teacher so would feel confident doing that.
I hope you get the support you need.

RandomMess is right. There are specific ‘edge of care’ services. Once you are part of this you should be able to access much more help such as therapy for your son and family therapy.

I don’t have any first hand experience but also wondered whether this school or even mainstream school is the right place for him.
To change his school would get him away from the group he socialises with and may also force him to break some of the habits he has developed as a bully.
Might be worth looking into alternatives.

www.amazon.co.uk/Scattered-Minds-Origins-Attention-Disorder/dp/1785042211?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

Can you afford private for therapy and intervention for your eldest son? The situation does sound like it's out of control. This obviously isn't a simple parenting fail on your part (unless you've grossly misrepresented the situation). This boy has underlying issues. I would seek out all the professional help you can get.

@Superfoodie123 I would read with extreme caution anyone who places significant emphasis on mothers and non NT development. It has more than a whiff of the fridge mothers cause autism that was once popular.

OP you have been a great parent, it is high time you stopped blaming yourself for this, this is not anyone's fault at all.

I would contact an anger management specialist that deals with pre teens and teens, I can possibly forward this to you, he needs some intervention now before he gets any older, and the problems will become much bigger

youngminds.org.uk/find-help/feelings-and-symptoms/anger/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI7evfuZ_c6wIViLPtCh32oQOqEAAYASAAEgLDM_D_BwE

Secondly can you enrol him into a local boxing club or similar? He can channel his anger into something constructive? He will also be around others that can help him moderate, good role models.

I would move him out of his current school and get shot of the boys that are encouraging him to behave like this. He may well kick off, but it is not possible to continue as he is, a new start without the gang might help. Assuming he is welcome to return to his current school.

I also think you need to get to to the root of the behaviour, and do not give up.

Sports and burning energy is important to someone with ADHD, I would keep every sport going after school, weekends and give him no spare time to cause trouble, he is still only 12.

You can turn this around, but you need much more support. Sounds really hard

He pushed his brother down the stairs? That could have had terrible consequences, and he assaults him on a daily basis ......... this is awful, camhs and social services need to do something - don't let them off the hook, don't minimise his behaviour, try GP if no one else.