My son is a bully and I don’t know what to do

[AshamedAndAfraid]

Posting here for traffic. My DS (12) has ADHD and ODD. He has always been difficult but we’ve raised him in a good, solid, happy home. Been married to my DH for 16 years, my childhood sweetheart. Lived in the same house for 10 years in an upmarket lovely area. It’s a happy, healthy home and our children have always been surrounded with love. Our two younger children are star pupils, they are kind and well liked. They’re sensitive and both have beautiful hearts. We’ve never had so much as a phone call from the school about either of them. Our eldest on the other hand is heading towards a very bleak future.

Since reception we’ve had nothing but trouble. Fighting at school. Breaking things. Being disruptive and rude. When he started secondary school things spiralled out of control. Detention at least 3 times a week. He is rude and disrespectful to his teachers and is very destructive. He has also become the most horrendous bully. He has a group of friends who come from rocky backgrounds. Two of them are known to social services. They are the kind of kids you read about on the news, the type of 12 year olds involved in stabbings and gangs. We have done everything we can to keep him away from them. The school has tried to intervene too. They prey on vulnerable children and make life hell for other boys at school. My son picks on boys who are overweight, he’s even been in a fight with a child with autism. On Tuesday he assaulted a boy on the bus. Punched him in the face because he had a speech impediment. I am so ashamed. He has been given a fixed term exclusion because he was in uniform and the boy’s parents informed the school, they want to report him to the police. Am I a terrible mum for hoping they do? I don’t know how else to get through to him.

I am scared for his future. I am scared for my future. I am tired of my other DS being assaulted on a daily basis. He has been pushed down the stairs. His brother broke his thumb over lockdown. I am tired of him terrorising our family. I am constantly being called an idiot, stupid, annoying. He has no respect for anyone or anything. His room has been smashed up. He breaks things for fun. Worst of all, he never shows any remorse. He often tries not to smile when we try and talk to him about something awful he has done. Like it’s all a big joke.

Where the hell did I go so wrong? I had post natal depression after he was born, is this my fault? I did get help. I tried my best but it was a struggle. I love my son but I also hate him for what he is doing to us.

He is under the care of a psychiatrist at CAMHS. I have emailed him to ask for advice. We have been turned down repeatedly for therapy.

Please help me figure out what to do. My DH and I are very aware of how bad this is and we are willing to do anything to make this better.

Oh OP I really feel for you. This is such a tough situation and you sound lovely. I would really reccomend that you read The Explosive Child by Ross Greene. It's a book that discusses different ways of helping kids who don't respond to normal discipline. The book is very honest and helpful and won't discuss endless sticker charts. At the core, I'm sure your son doesn't want to be doing this type of behaviour either and the book will totally change your perspective from punishment to teaching him the skills he currently lacks like executive functioning and sociall skills. This approach is used a lot by psychologists for children with ODD. Good luck

I didn’t want to read and run OP but I think I can give you a unique Perspective as I have a sibling with severe ADHD and growing up with him was horrible, not just for me but for my other siblings also. He was uncontrollable in every aspect. He’d do things like set fires in the house. Take things to pieces and break things just to find out how they worked, I remember waking up in the morning and he’d taken my bed down during then night and woke up on a mattress on the floor. I know why now, but back then I didn’t and it was incredibly painful to watch my mum have to try and deal with all three of us, but only one getting the attention. The only thing that really saved our relationship within the family was contacting social services for rest bite a few days a week for a few hours while we could all have some rest and time where my mum wasn’t stressed. My brother ended up going to a special school for children with ADHD and was absolutely fine until he reached the age of adulthood and eventually stopped taking his medication.

@Grapesoda7 I drive to collect him everyday. There are two exits on completely different sides of the school. I wait for an hour everyday to see if I can convince him to get in the car with me. Sometimes I guess the right exit but even then he runs away. I don’t want him on the bus but I can’t always control this. It’s so hard.

@Legallyblondeee I’m so sorry you went through this. I feel so guilty for my other children. My DS gets all of the attention and sometimes turns us into people we really don’t want to be, it’s awful. I know some people might judge me for sending him to stay with family sometimes but every now and then we just need the break. It does wonders for us as a family to be away from him sometimes. The taking things apart to see how they work thing drives me nuts! I had to replace my laptop two weeks ago. I kept asking him why he did it and he just shrugged and said he needed to see. It’s so hard to understand the behaviour and they really don’t see why it’s wrong. It’s good to hear your brother could finally come off his meds, I hope that will be us one day!

My son was horrendously bullied at school. There was no point appealing to the parents - they didn't care or wouldn't believe it. If any of his bullies had had parents like you, OP, then I'd have felt so much better about it.
You are not a bad parent. You're doing your very best in horrendous circumstances. You are taking responsibility for your son, and one day he'll see that you did this and respect it. This is not because of PND.
I'm so sorry - it sounds like hell. I hope you both get the help you need.

Also your username wrings my heart. I do understand it. I used to think that if I hadn't had PND, if I didn't have anxiety I'd have prepared my son better for school. And yes - the guilt of one child getting all the attention - I can relate to that too. But at the end of the day all we can do is our very best, and you are clearly doing that. I think you sound like a great mother xxx

Could you arrange with school that they don't let him out with the other pupils and you drive into the grounds and he's handed over by a member of staff? He may still run off but it may work sometimes?

When do you have to make a plan with school about him returning after his exclusion?

OP you are definitely a great mum!

I really hope you can INSIST on more help. Please gather all your strength and remember that the point of all these services we pay for are to help parents like you - he is a future adult member of our society, and I want you to get proper help so much!

I remember when I was a teen some family friends had sons who were so badly behaved, and they are now great young men. Better behaviour can be learned with the right help! Sending strength

Just be aware that the LA you move to might not honour your existing LA's EHCP. Do check this out before moving. Be aware that there are more resources in West Surrey than East Surrey. Do look at special schools like The Priory in Godalming which is ADHD specific, Farney House in West Sussex - they transformed my friend's son. St Dominic's in Godalming, Sunnydown in Caterham.

Sorry haven't read the thread so apologies if repeating/contradicting anything that has gone before but my first thought after reading your post is have you considered Pathological Demand Avoidance (PDA), if not carefully managed the anxiety that is part of that can express itself very much in the way you describe your sons behaviour, xx

@Grapesoda7 Can you believe that I asked the school to do this and they said no! They basically said that once the end of the day bell rings the boys are not their responsibility anymore. Even with an EHCP. They said they just don’t have enough staff to do it. I have a reintegration meeting with the headteacher on Friday morning.

I'm sorry, I don't have any advice, insight or experience. But blimey does it sound hard for all of you and I don't blame you for feeling ashamed of his behaviour and at a loss at what to do. It's deplorable that you've not received adequate support yet.

The fact that he preys on vulnerable children and shows no remorse makes me wonder if he has sociopathic tendencies. Maybe he can't feel empathy.

I agree with a pp, that you're going to have to ramp up the call for help. Tell social services that you've had enough and will relinquish responsibility if they don't provide more. Maybe try more voluntary services/organisations if any exist for this type of behaviour.

I'm so sorry. I can only imagine how heartbroken you are to hear he's hurting people. This doesn't sound like anything you've done or haven't done. Lots of young kids get dragged up and still end up being lovely children. Lots of love x

@akerman I am truly sorry to hear that your poor son was bullied. I can’t begin to explain how mortified I am to admit that I am the parent of a bully. I want to do everything in my power to stop my DS from ever hurting another child. The child my son hurt this week was from another school and we don’t know who he is. I have asked the headteacher to give the mum my details so that I can speak to her. I want her to know that my son is going to be held accountable. I really hope she gets in touch. Thank you so much for reaching out to me, I hope your dear son has recovered from his experience xx

There are so many posts here i'm not sure if what i am about to say has been mentioned but please don't ever think you are a failure. So you sound like a terrific mum.and are trying everything that you possibly can.

I don't know about adhd but i do see trouble kids acting out as a way of getting attention. They have no idea how to deal with their emotions or why they act the way they do.

However, these kids are surrounded by negativity, constantly in trouble constantly been given negative feedback from teachers parents other kids at school. Its all they know and they don't want to make an effort to please people that make them feel this way.

So your son has found positivity ( well for him ) from his friends, they make him feel good about himself by doing stupid awful things that they think are cool and give him positive feedback.

I feel troubled kids need constant praise, over the top thank you's and well done's for even the smallest things. When you tell someone, even adults, that they are good at something or doing well, they want to continue to feel that and therefore make the effort to keep doing what they are doing.

In regards to him trying not to laugh, i believe its because he doesn't know how to deal with hid his emotions and is shamed and embarrassed. He will act like its no big deal and continue to act out because being in trouble is not making him feel good and the cycle starts again.

Well, thats my theory. Make a child feel bad about something they will do it again and just tru not to get caught.

Make a child feel good about something, they will want to continue or even do better.

Brilliant idea moving him out of the city. I live rurally, f* all happens here beyond the yearly excitement of the village fete. I would honestly move him out, somewhere like here with no buses, no town centres, literally nothing. Whilst he is here get him involved in voluntary work to help him with his empathy.

My teens are very well behaved, not because I am a brilliant parent but because without a lift in my car they are stuck here with the cows for company!

That's not good at all of the school! Would they not even let him out ten minutes early to meet you? How often does he have an LSA with him in lessons?

Is the SENCO the unhelpful one? Could CAMHS support with the school being difficult or does your son have any specialist support services that work with schools?

My son has a Ehcp and is under CAMHS, it's so so hard, you must be at the end of your tether.

You said he is good with animals. Helping out a stables? Farming? Is he practical? His dyslexia will mean that school is a misery.

@Aurora124 you really have hit the nail on the head here! I know I need to praise him more, it’s a vicious cycle of being angry and wanting to discipline him but also knowing that it’s making it worse. I don’t want to be loving towards him when I’m so upset but I know it’s probably the thing that will help the most. Maybe I need therapy too.

Every time he does the trying not to laugh thing I think back on something I did as a teen that I’m still mortified about. I got the giggles at my friend’s father’s funeral. I had so many emotions running through me and I couldn’t control it. There was absolutely nothing funny about the situation, obviously, it was just this uncontrollable response I had to an awful situation. I wonder if my son does the same thing?

I lived in London for decades, the issue you are going to have very soon, if not now, is gangs. London gangs are notorious and will be looking for someone just like your son. Easily to influence - he will be involved in all kinds before his 14th birthday.

You are absolutely doing the right thing. Make sure the house tomorrow has no means of bus services, and it is a twenty mile walk to the nearest town. It will slow him down. It may not be a cure all - but you keep him away from serious crime.

At this stage, your problems are not so big, another year and you are right to identify the potential issues as he grows up.

If you are looking in Surrey, why not give Borstal a call? It is a Young Offenders Institute. Ask them if you can show you both around - they may still be happy to do that even post covid (missing out the snooker and games room) It is very important he understands what the outcome will be if he continues on this path. It is a bloody terrifying place as you go under the archway something out of a horror movie on a bleak day.

Tough love as far as you can go - then a carrot of release - via boxing, anger management and some role models that has respect for already.

You are a great mother, wishing you the best

OP this is not your fault. My DS has DMDD ODD he is only 5 it takes a lot of control to keep him in check, also suggested the cause been pregnancy trauma, I was a bit depressed not traumatised.
He often gets the urge to run at me to push me or grab my neck tightly to strangle me it is a sensory thing does make me fearful of the future he is a huge boy.
You need to speak to a psychiatrist about his medication, Is he passionate percentage in the young offenders are medicated for ADHD.

Your post has made me quite angry OP but not at you or your son but at the education system. It's not geared up for your son. My dad left school at 14 and went to work on the family farm. He was dyslexic but he had problem solving skills and practical skills like no other.
I know I'm no help but I wish you the best.

I still laugh when very stressed or upset, it is a reaction to intensity. So bad at funerals, I also did the same thing when my cherished grandfather died, laughed until the tears rolled down. My father slapped my face. Ignore the laughter and just keep talking seriously.

I am wondering if your son feels very very unsafe and is reacting to his environment op. We see lots of kids like this, arming themselves to protect, being angry and aggressive because they are so intimidated by everything. It is a do or die mentality. I have seen this many times, very good kids really barring their teeth and becoming 'different' people, but actually they just need to feel safe.

London is a scary place to grow up, especially if you are a teen boy. I would not underestimate the stress he is going through just to stay alive and well. You might find the bullied boy was him trying to prove himself, so he was not next.

Move op.

That is all you can do, and take your son out of that place whilst you still can. Show him what it means to decompress, relax, be kind in your new home.

Hi op it sounds like you are pulling out all the stops to address the behaviours like moving house and school etc. Would it be worth putting him into a new school but back a year to take the pressure off if he is frustrated at not being able to keep up academically with the other kids due to his dyslexia? Bullies normally feel inadequate in some way so could this be where he struggles. Is there anything in it that he is loving to you and your dd but very aggressive to males? Best of luck op.

Try getting him into a local boxing club or similar, they regularly help to channel aggressive behaviour into something positive, the instructors will likely teach him respect too.
I'm not saying it's a fix to your problems but along with some other suggestions it may help.

I would also say that I will get on the bus and sit beside my son, loudly letting everyone know I'm his mum and he needs my help to behave well, if I ever hear he does anything similar again. I would also get him to promise to keep an eye out for his victim and ensure no one ever bullies him or anyone like him again. I'd say (and mean) that I might hop on the bus at any time, to check that he is sticking to his promise.

Excellent idea, I think that would scare most children into thinking twice before misbehaving again.