My son is a bully and I don’t know what to do

[AshamedAndAfraid]

Posting here for traffic. My DS (12) has ADHD and ODD. He has always been difficult but we’ve raised him in a good, solid, happy home. Been married to my DH for 16 years, my childhood sweetheart. Lived in the same house for 10 years in an upmarket lovely area. It’s a happy, healthy home and our children have always been surrounded with love. Our two younger children are star pupils, they are kind and well liked. They’re sensitive and both have beautiful hearts. We’ve never had so much as a phone call from the school about either of them. Our eldest on the other hand is heading towards a very bleak future.

Since reception we’ve had nothing but trouble. Fighting at school. Breaking things. Being disruptive and rude. When he started secondary school things spiralled out of control. Detention at least 3 times a week. He is rude and disrespectful to his teachers and is very destructive. He has also become the most horrendous bully. He has a group of friends who come from rocky backgrounds. Two of them are known to social services. They are the kind of kids you read about on the news, the type of 12 year olds involved in stabbings and gangs. We have done everything we can to keep him away from them. The school has tried to intervene too. They prey on vulnerable children and make life hell for other boys at school. My son picks on boys who are overweight, he’s even been in a fight with a child with autism. On Tuesday he assaulted a boy on the bus. Punched him in the face because he had a speech impediment. I am so ashamed. He has been given a fixed term exclusion because he was in uniform and the boy’s parents informed the school, they want to report him to the police. Am I a terrible mum for hoping they do? I don’t know how else to get through to him.

I am scared for his future. I am scared for my future. I am tired of my other DS being assaulted on a daily basis. He has been pushed down the stairs. His brother broke his thumb over lockdown. I am tired of him terrorising our family. I am constantly being called an idiot, stupid, annoying. He has no respect for anyone or anything. His room has been smashed up. He breaks things for fun. Worst of all, he never shows any remorse. He often tries not to smile when we try and talk to him about something awful he has done. Like it’s all a big joke.

Where the hell did I go so wrong? I had post natal depression after he was born, is this my fault? I did get help. I tried my best but it was a struggle. I love my son but I also hate him for what he is doing to us.

He is under the care of a psychiatrist at CAMHS. I have emailed him to ask for advice. We have been turned down repeatedly for therapy.

Please help me figure out what to do. My DH and I are very aware of how bad this is and we are willing to do anything to make this better.

Op
Akerman mskes excellent point about the bullued child knowing that the bully's parents are decent. I would go out of my way to try to let them and the victims know you are not 'one of those parents' who simly don't care that their kids are important. I would apologise. I would tell them how you are dealing with it or trying to.
This is important.
I have not read the full thread but if you removed him from the school would that not get him away from these boys.
I hate to say it but it really sounds like he is on a collision course and drastic as it is i think removal might bexworth it. Then he is the new kid. Might not be so easy to bully when you step into an environment where you don't know anyone.

Meant to say that theur kids are bullies, not important. Not sure what happened there

And yes, getting on the bus is an option. I would try anything at this point.

thegreenparent.co.uk/articles/read/well-schooled

If you can afford therapy for yourself it would certainly support you in your difficult situation. You can say what you like to the therapist and be as open about your feelings as you want and have a safe confidential place to vent each week.
Can you afford art psychotherapy for your son? He may well respond to that and it might help his anger issues. Children don't really talk about or understand their emotions but working through art materials can help a lot as they are allowed to make all the choices and have a safe space to express themselves.

Its very hard to praise someone who doesn't deserve it! But disapline isn't working.

I would sit him down next time there is an incident and tell him all the good points he has. You are great when you want to be you are really good at this etc and you are disappointed he feels the need to do these things because he is so much better than that. Ask him what his punishment should be. It will be trivial but it would get him communicating.

You don't mention your DH's role in this. What sort of relationship has he with your eldest son? Does your DH have a hobbies or activities he can involve his son in, to be a good male role model?
Could your DH and your son take up a hobby together, does that seem possible?

I paid for private therapy for my DS for years. £45 a week (£180 a month). It moved to fortnightly after a few months. Different issue to yours but quite serious.
Don't rely on DSA or NHS would be my advice.

He's now going to uni which is a great success. Uni is highly supportive but also highly expensive. He'll probably never work though so unlikely to ever pay it back. Not sure of plan after uni but at least uni is a light in your distance.

You must get him private therapy. If I can find £180 to £250 a month as single mum then you can.
Otherwise you know where it'll end. (Prison or dead). Sorry x

Crystal. You can bark out that people “must” pay privately for things. It’s all very fine and dandy saying that you managed so the whole world should. You know nothing about Ops family financial circumstances.

Haven't rtft sorry, but have you ever heard of PDA (Pathological Demand Avoidance)? It's part of the Autism spectrum and is sometimes mistaken for ODD.

Its very hard to praise someone who doesn't deserve it Yes that's right. You said he takes up all your attention and so he's got that by behaviour that's not acceptable. I know he's got ADHD and I don't underestimate that but he also makes his own choices. You can't build up his self esteem by praising behaviours that he knows very well are completely unacceptable.

[quote AshamedAndAfraid]@averythinline I hear what you’re saying but in my mind I just need to get him away from the temptation of city living. He is too free to do what he likes. He runs away from home and it’s so easy for him to disappear on a bus. I know how judgmental this sounds but I need to get him away from the kind of kids that he hangs around with. The boys he is drawn to are the typical impoverished, known to social services types who don’t have supportive parents or stable homes. The kind you are quite unlikely to find in a village in Surrey. He is just too easily influenced.[/quote]
Please be very careful about where you move to. I'm in a little sleepy, leafy Surrey village, and the local FB and Next-door pages are currently about:

• drunken behaviour by local young teens
• vandalism of community resources by young teens
• throwing rocks at cars and houses
• a group deliberately punching single elderly people out for walks in the evening (one man in hospital as of last night).

There is NOTHING for young people to do in the area, so they get up to no good, the local community has zero tolerance and the local police seem to be non-existent.

Rural doesn't mean families not in poverty or who aren't known to social services. There is a lot more antisocial behaviour here than where I used to live in SE London - to the extent that our DD does not go to school locally.

You are also likely to find that mental health services and services in general are vastly less than they are in London, waiting lists longer and harder to access. Surrey in particular is v tight with money (just look at the roads) as they have a very high proportion of elderly residents and so the council tax receipts aren't great compared with what they have to spend.

At least in London you have a access to a wide range of services, sports, clubs etc. Round here, there's a football club (sometimes) and that is it.

@sadie9 My DH is a wonderful dad he just isn’t around that much. He works very long hours so that I can be at home for the children. When he is at home he tries his best. They go cycling most weekends and he sits him down to talk regularly. He blames himself too because he is dyslexic and had ADD as a child, he just didn’t have the hyperactive and impulsive tendencies. Mostly I’ve had to tackle this on my own but that’s ok. He is self employed and can’t take much time off. He is far more level headed than I am. I am a very anxious person. He takes him to work sometimes too when it’s safe and he is able. We are a real team and I’m not resentful, I know I am more capable to deal with this than he is and that’s ok.

I dont think moving will solve your problem with DS

I know someone who's adopted DD couldnt help but get the train from their very posh big house age 12 to hang out with all sorts at Kings Cross event hough she'd been adopted age 5.

They will find a way no matter what to be with the types of people they need and want to hang out with.

It's like a magnetic, a kind of strong force that lures them to the dark side as it were.

And don't think a quiet village will stop him in the middle of nowhere as that will be full of teens smoking tons of weed as they are bored to tears as there is no where to go so then you have a whole host of other issues. Mind you he'd be more self medicated at least.

If it were my DS I would start looking at these kinds of options

School

Pupil Referal Unit.
Kooth
www.family-action.org.uk/what-we-do/children-families/family-support-services/

www.theschoolrun.com/what-is-a-pupil-referral-unit

What is his behaviour like between events?

Is he always difficult?

Do you have normal calm moments like with your other DC?

Can you see a glimmer of hope that he will calm down eventually in a couple of years or so? Boys can be a real pain in years 7, 8 and 9.

@AshamedAndAfraid
There are many troubled drug using teens in well off rural expensive areas...Please don't delude yourself there..
I knew a girl from a ''very good'' family whose parents bought her a thoroughbred horse she'd bonded with, and moved away from Bristol to get her away from the boy she was hanging around with...
DS used to go to a primary near Bristol prison, and to my shock I saw their daughter [15] in a beat up car outside the prison....visiting her boyfriend.
Her family had uprooted themselves for nothing. Not sure if physical moving would work..He'll gravitate to troubled kids, which are in every locality.

I came acoss heroin and crack cocaine litter in a green lane in Beaufort Hunt country..very well to do...Just don't think that ''green and wealthy and rural= safe from troubled people.

oak I think evidence of the odd amount of occasional drug use at a hunt ball is slightly different to organised crime and gang culture tbh

I don't understand why you are posting in AIBU when you have a child with a disability. Much of the advice you have been given is by people who have never had your (extreme) experience.

You really need very specialist help, perhaps a further look at his diagnosis, could it perhaps be ASD with PDA and he is completely overwhelmed? It might also mean there are other avenues to different medication and schools which could be more suitable. I also think that thinking of things like your other children having 'kindness in their hearts' and pointing out how stable you are etc. doesn't really help at all, and certainly not your son who may be feeling very isolated amongst you. Please centre him as this is the only way things can change.

I suspect you need to be very practical and even hard nosed at this point. Your family is in crisis. Your younger children are very vulnerable. One wise PP wrote:

^Have you considered contacting Social Services and explained you can no longer keep your younger DC safe from him. Sadly I think when (if) you start threatening to sign him over into their care you may start receiving some additional support.

This is about funding no doubt, them supporting you is cheaper than him being in the care of SS...

You need to stop asking and start shouting for support and how you can't keep him etc. Awful but it seems to be the only way to access additional support.^

I would listen to this and then go back to the GP, CAMHS, the school everyone until they listen

Do consider a residential or boarding school if you can. He sounds like he is in a great deal of pain.

Hi op I'm so sorry you are all having such a hard time. Are there any charity organisations/ support groups you can get in contact with for support? I think a move to a new area might be a great chance for a fresh start but I do think to your son needs lots of support. I agree about going private if you can not get NHS support. Would keeping a diary help to see if any patterns/ triggers develop ? Also to see if you think the medication is having any side effects was he better on a previous medication? Can they look at dosage or are there any other options? I dont know if this helps at all but my husband has ADHD and was from a chaotic home with abuse. He didnt bully as far as I know but did offend ( stealing, drunk and disorderly, ect) and was also expelled from every school he attended and although he doesnt do this anymore he is still very impulsive with poor emotional regulation. He told me he doesnt know why he does things sometimes ( eg things that upset me / others) he just acts in the moment. Now I felt like he did these things because he didnt care about hurting me or wasnt bothered if I was upset ect. Actually he told me it makes him feel like shit and he feels really bad ( low self esteem) hates it feels like he is messing everything up is a screw up ect. But he doesnt know how to express this or fix it. After lots of talking I have realised sometimes when he blurs out things or says odd things to me he is looking for reassurance from me/ feeling insecure but he doesnt say or express that in a usual way so it has taking me time to understand what he is trying to communicate. Wish you both all the best and hope you can get the support you all need.

@TantricTwist

I dont think moving will solve your problem with DS

I know someone who's adopted DD couldnt help but get the train from their very posh big house age 12 to hang out with all sorts at Kings Cross event hough she'd been adopted age 5.

They will find a way no matter what to be with the types of people they need and want to hang out with.

It's like a magnetic, a kind of strong force that lures them to the dark side as it were.

And don't think a quiet village will stop him in the middle of nowhere as that will be full of teens smoking tons of weed as they are bored to tears as there is no where to go so then you have a whole host of other issues. Mind you he'd be more self medicated at least.

If it were my DS I would start looking at these kinds of options

School

This! I hadn't see your post..but I posted a similar opinion. Teens get @rse bored in rural areas and spot on about them being magnetically attracted to 'the dark side' as you put it.

{An adopted girl of 5 probably has vast attachment issues too...} No easy answers.
''Escape to the Country'' sounds like a perfect idea ..but is less so in practice..with the risks of underage driving with vehicle savvy older kids.

Edit 'Troubled' teens get drawn to dark side...If a teen loves horses it is a huge bonus to live rurally.

You are doing your best, OP
I sort of think if he gets into trouble with the law it’s going to get you the help you need. Because you’re way past grounding/Xbox restriction/no pocket money aren’t you?

I think Cattestreet has highlighted some important issues about your attitude towards the other boys. Child rearing is so complex that I could never be assured that my child's upbringing is perfect. I think some whole family work would be helpful and may clarify some issues for you. I'm not sure how you can be open minded about the situation when you're so adamant that the home situation is perfect . You may find that the other boys families are struggling as much as you, would it be possible to have a conversation with them. Don't be surprised if they consider your son to be the ringleader.
When your son runs away do you contact the police, he's a vulnerable person and I'd contact them every time. His photo being circulated on social media may be a shock for him.
It sounds like your son is quite different to his siblings and that's tricky in itself. Presumably he has low self esteem and is not achieving well in class due to his dyslexia. The other boys are giving him the acknowledgement he requires.
Make sure that another school will accept him before you make any plans to move. My local school took on a boy who had been convicted of numerous knife crimes. He came from a very well known and influential family. The school lost so many pupils because of it and I know it's common for schools to ask for behaviour reports before accepting children.
Reach out to the various organisations who support troubled young people, many of them will offer outdoor pursuits etc.
Best wishes and I do hope things improve.

I don't know much about these disorders OP, but it sounds as if you are confident that your DS does have the ability to empathise with others...even if his anger gets the better of it. That has to be such a sign of hope, something to work with and build on.

I would write to CAMHS detailing the incidents of pushing sibling downstairs, getting in dangerous physical conflict outside the home etc, and as a PP said ask for written confirmation of their judgement that he is not enough of a risk to himslef or others to qualify for therapy. Ask for something on paper that they know you can produce in the future if they prove tragically wrong.