My son is a bully and I don’t know what to do

[AshamedAndAfraid]

Posting here for traffic. My DS (12) has ADHD and ODD. He has always been difficult but we’ve raised him in a good, solid, happy home. Been married to my DH for 16 years, my childhood sweetheart. Lived in the same house for 10 years in an upmarket lovely area. It’s a happy, healthy home and our children have always been surrounded with love. Our two younger children are star pupils, they are kind and well liked. They’re sensitive and both have beautiful hearts. We’ve never had so much as a phone call from the school about either of them. Our eldest on the other hand is heading towards a very bleak future.

Since reception we’ve had nothing but trouble. Fighting at school. Breaking things. Being disruptive and rude. When he started secondary school things spiralled out of control. Detention at least 3 times a week. He is rude and disrespectful to his teachers and is very destructive. He has also become the most horrendous bully. He has a group of friends who come from rocky backgrounds. Two of them are known to social services. They are the kind of kids you read about on the news, the type of 12 year olds involved in stabbings and gangs. We have done everything we can to keep him away from them. The school has tried to intervene too. They prey on vulnerable children and make life hell for other boys at school. My son picks on boys who are overweight, he’s even been in a fight with a child with autism. On Tuesday he assaulted a boy on the bus. Punched him in the face because he had a speech impediment. I am so ashamed. He has been given a fixed term exclusion because he was in uniform and the boy’s parents informed the school, they want to report him to the police. Am I a terrible mum for hoping they do? I don’t know how else to get through to him.

I am scared for his future. I am scared for my future. I am tired of my other DS being assaulted on a daily basis. He has been pushed down the stairs. His brother broke his thumb over lockdown. I am tired of him terrorising our family. I am constantly being called an idiot, stupid, annoying. He has no respect for anyone or anything. His room has been smashed up. He breaks things for fun. Worst of all, he never shows any remorse. He often tries not to smile when we try and talk to him about something awful he has done. Like it’s all a big joke.

Where the hell did I go so wrong? I had post natal depression after he was born, is this my fault? I did get help. I tried my best but it was a struggle. I love my son but I also hate him for what he is doing to us.

He is under the care of a psychiatrist at CAMHS. I have emailed him to ask for advice. We have been turned down repeatedly for therapy.

Please help me figure out what to do. My DH and I are very aware of how bad this is and we are willing to do anything to make this better.

US boot camp?

How do you punish him at home?

‘ We send him to stay with family which he really hates! We’ve done this a few times. They live in the country so he has nowhere to run off to. ’

Might it be possible for him to attend a school with a more therapeutic environment as a weekly/term boarder? Would speaking with the GP be the portal to specialist education assessments & services?

ODD is a really difficult one, so sorry you're going through this.

I haven't got anything practical to add, but as regards "was it anything I did?" - the bond and interaction between mother and baby develops from both sides. I think that with children who turn out to have 'developmental variants' (for want of a better descriptor), there is often something in how they respond and interact from babyhood that shapes how they are parented. Sometimes positively (eg a sensitive mother who picks up on a child with sensory issues and learns how to manage them), sometimes apparently negatively. But it is very rarely the mother's "fault"! So don't blame yourself, please.

Keep fighting for help for your son and for all your family. Hope you can get something effective in place soon.

If you think that the police may be able to get through to your son, perhaps you could contact them yourself, or support the other child's parents in contacting them, @AshamedAndAfraid?

Just to second this - and to say you're not alone with this one. My sister eventually had to do similar with my nephew. When he was caught stealing from the neighbours, they were going to let it go because they knew my DSis, and she said "no, please report." She did so partly because she was getting no help - the GP's practice said his substance abuse problems were an issue for social services, social services said they were a medical issue - simply because neither wanted the financial burden of actually doing something to help. Encouraging the neighbours to report to the police was the only way DSis could access the support my nephew needed.

Your not a bad mum, you care and are worried. Sometimes we can always blame ourselves no matter what. I don't have any advice but just to know your are not alone in having support. We still love our children, but that doesn't always mean we like their behaviour!

I'd be wanting to get the 'he's not dangerous enough for therapy' line put in writing. Might concentrate minds.

And yes - regrettably - to letting social services know you are considering residential care as you currently can't keep your other children safe. I suspect that then the help will get stepped up.

Where I live, a child exhibiting this behaviour would probably be considered for a therapeutic stay in a paediatric psychiatric hospital. I'm assuming that this sort of help is much less available on the NHS, sadly, but could you investigate?

This sounds as if the troubles go way beyond anything that could be your 'fault', but I did just want to note a couple of things that struck me in your post:

You seem to be in something of a mindset as if this sort of thing doesn't/shouldn't happen to families like yours. You talk of his friends from 'rocky' backgrounds and of the stability of yours (married, owned house lived in for 10 years, etc). Connected to this, you post first and foremost about the effects of the behaviour that are seen outside the family - the asaults on his brother came after all that, almost as a bit of an afterthought, so that I was quite taken aback to read about them. I'm wondering if there is something about your emphasis on how you (you as a mother, your family and he) are seen in the world that is fanning his flames, as it were? A sense of 'I'm the "bad one"/black sheep anyway, may as well live up to it'? Note that I am not saying that any of this is 'your fault' in any way, shape or form - it's just that a holistic approach to this may well involve some family therapy and I just wanted to reflect back some dynamics I pick up.

You say this started in reception - did it manifest at school first? What's the age gap to his siblings? Can you name any positive traits he has, any examples of what he's like when his behaviour is good?

Your local Youth Offending Team (YOT) may have early intervention support for young people at risk of offending which may be relevant. This would typically involve help experienced YOT workers engaging YP in challenging positive activities, individual anger management work, etc. It might be worth giving them a call to find out. (They come under Local Authorities).

@WitchesGlove

US boot camp?

How do you punish him at home?

Good Lord, no

Boarding school? One with a military ethos?

When DS had the assessment & diagnosis, were you given a copy of the report?

There should be a section in there with recommendations. This should include educational, social / behavioural (possibly drug, depending). The recommendations will apply to you for home work, in school and external therapies.

Were any of the recommendations put in place?
Did school or any outside agencies contact you re accommodations and therapies?
Does school know about the diagnosis?

What I’m trying to get across is there’s no point to assessment/diagnosis if no-one follows up?

• Once there is a diagnosis in place (or the strong suspicion of SEND), agencies are under a statutory duty to provide appropriate help and accommodations.
• You do not need an ECHP to receive help. The diagnosis is enough.
• The help to be provided is Anticipatory - which means you should not have to be constantly ‘reminding’ the school etc... for help.
• All bodies (school etc...) must provide help. Or, if they do not, they must provide a reason for not providing the help.
• Lack of finances is not a reason to avoid providing help.
• School should have provided DS with an IEP - Individual Educational Plan. School do not have to call it an IEP but a suitable document must be provided (see SEND guide). This can be integrated with non-educational therapies.

Have you seen this doc (link below)?
It’s lengthy but in clear sections. There’s a lot of repartition and some of the sections will not apply.
Do not rely on school or others interpretation of the document. I’ve seen some very questionable interpretations.

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/398815/SEND_Code_of_Practice_January_2015.pdf

This approach is not a cop out, excusing DS of his poor behaviour. But without appropriate interventions and therapies the chances of DS staying in (main stream) education are slight.

Get yourself over to the SEN board.

OP - I know you mentioned several things happened over lockdown but did you see any sign of behaviour over lockdown that his behaviour improved away from the school and away from the influence of these friends of his at all, or did it remain exactly the same? Just wondering

OP, I understand you want traffic for your discussion but AIBU may not be the right section for this discussion as not all posters are going to be aware that this is not a standalone parenting issue but one of brain functioning.

This wouldn’t be suitable for your son as he has ADHD/ODD, but does anyone remember that video on socials of that dad marching his son back to Asda after his son went viral for verbally abusing Asda staff? I thought that was well handled IMO. Served him right.

Op I'm in the same boat 16 year old ds. He is a horror if I'm honest.
I have brought him to psychiatrist, psychologist, the police, social workers, nothing works.
No one will medicate him despite me going to a and e and refusing to leave until I get help.
I have no answers, one day a flip might switch and he might take responsibility. I don't know he is completely self self serving. I'm sure people judge me but he was raised the same as my other two who couldn't be any more different. It's not your fault op or mine, at the age they are once cognitive function bid there they know right from wrong and choose to ignore it.
Before anyone jumps on the consequences band wagon, we have all but kicked him out, it makes no odds. Ground him? He just leaves? Take phone? He doesn't care. He has no desire for computer games or anything like that, he has no material interests so does not care if you remove priveledge.
I repeat it is not our fault op.

The medication doesn't sound as if it's working or god help you if this is an improvement on what he otherwise would be like.

I used to work closely with a guy who had Aspergers and ADHD and he was on slow release Concerta and whilst he'd be edgy and unpredictable towards the evening he was calm and focused when we were working together. It was really obvious when it wore off!

I'd definitely ask for medication to be reviewed. He's a growing lad and maybe needs stronger dose?

@SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius

If you think that the police may be able to get through to your son, perhaps you could contact them yourself, or support the other child's parents in contacting them, *@AshamedAndAfraid*?

I'm sorry that I don't have any more advice to offer, but I just wanted to say that you are NOT a failure as a mum - it sounds as if you have tried, and are still trying, everything you can think of, to help your son.

I had PND after all three of my dc were born, so I know what a struggle it is - but you DID do your best, I am sure. I was struck by what you said about loving him but hating him for what he is doing - I wonder if it might help you feel a bit better if you reframe that as "I love him, but I hate his behaviour"?

I hope that someone with more experience and knowledge will come along soon, to help you - but I just wanted you to know that I have read this, and am sending you good thoughts. If you want to vent, and you think I could help, please do.

Beautiful and compassionate response - you said whatIwanted to, but better thanI could have managed.

@AshamedAndAfraid
Not your fault...
Has your son got a genetic issue?..??I think it's a double dose of XYY..I heard about it on tv years ago, as many violent prisoners have it.

It could explain the aggression from year dot.

Police may be a good idea. I called the police to my own DS years ago when he was starting to be a bit 'bargy' ...
He had been a sweet tempered child, but as a teen he hit a gnarly phase.
The Police were very good. I asked son about it recently, to see if he was affected by it.... son said ''I can't remember what they said now...but I think it was a good idea. {!}

Good luck.

@AshamedAndAfraid

COMPLETELY normal to love the child but dislike the behaviour.

As he is lucky enough to have a loving home with two original parents...that can't be the reason.

It is more likely to be a quirk of nature...rather than ''Nurture'' .

Do look in ti XYY. Not sure if anything can be done for it, but it might make you feel less gutted.

I would say that secondary school is often brutal, even for a NT child. I’d therefore take him out of school. The environment is no good for him . Can you afford tutors instead? Can you/dh afford for one of you not to work, in order to take care of him?

Sorry meant to add it’s nothing you have done/not done. No need for any guilt.

when were his meds last reviewed ?

why do you send him away? especially as he hates it- I'm not sure that is an effective behaviuor management approach...however you do seem to have been left high and dry

have you been referred to social services - it maybe called early help in your area - have a look at your council website ...as a front door to access early support - usually CAMHS would be
referring you or running parenting courses (my nephew had similar diagnossis and issues- parents - did many parenting courses including behaviour management, and stratgeies for non violent response techniques - all via CAMHS -lower level than psychaitrist getting that was a nightmare )
there is also a programme called BICS - behaviour intervention programme which works with the family - which in our area is accessed via Social services/CAMHS
if he has been excluded from school the exclusion team at the council maybe able to help.

maybe if you ask for a medication review - as it is obviously not working you may get somewhere with CAMHS ...

Sometimes getting police involved can make other agencies raise their level of intervention - and you wont have a choice if the other parents complain..

@AshamedAndAfraid you and your husband are not horrible parents. Your child's (escalating) behaviour sounds like he might potentially be a psychopath especially regarding pushing his brother down the stairs and breaking his thumb. Please take a few minutes to listen to this audio story about child psychopaths with your husband:

www.npr.org/2017/05/24/529893128/scientists-develop-new-treatment-strategies-for-child-psychopaths

I would then go back to the psychiatrist, CAHMS, police or whomever and start shouting/yelling that you want him assessed for personality disorders. Good luck.

I think what I'm trying to say is that this likely goes beyond just ADHD or ODD. This feels like it's a much bigger issue.

Of course you’re not a bad mother wanting the police to involved very much the opposite. You don’t need me to say that he can’t go around punching people with disabilities or anyone for that matter and not expect any come back.