To ask what mainstream parents really think about the kids with special needs.

[Willbob]

I have a child with SEN. He has complex needs; statement at three transferred to ehcp. We had to fight for a mainstream setting. He has full time 1:1. My older childer is very bright and now goes to a selective grammar school for secondary education. I had the "normal" school parent experience with him.

Other parents at school are mainly pleasant, some more so than others like any parent really but completely different to my my experience with my older child. I do wonder though for those who don't understand or know the sen world what you really think about the kids in your child school like my son? I imagine some like it and see the value of having them there, where as some see them as a drain on funding or a distraction. Just curious really. Though this maybe a good place to ask as anonymous.

"12:16drspouse

what do you want to happen, do you want children to be forced to invite people they dont want?"
"I want children to learn how to play with a variety of other children.
If they never see a variety of children, they will never learn to play with them."
But they see them all day in school. You cant force this on them as it will cause resentment. I think you are being very unfair and need to be a bit more reasonable. These are children at the end of the day.

When I was young and foolish I may have worried about the impact on my child or even judged the parents. I was young and naive.

Now, I count myself bloody lucky to have had 4 children who have no issues that impact on their learning. I'm generally very pissed off that provision is so poor for anyone who isn't close to the average and mighty impressed by the parents who navigate the system. We are a rich county who resource many of our services poorly with no thought of the long term cost to individuals and society. Take that to mean money but it can also mean mental and physical health and many other things.

@Gancanny

The only concerns I've had are around behaviours and the safety of my children.

Funnily enough they're the same fear parents of children with SN have.

A NT child took my child's belongings and hid them every day for weeks, seemingly for fun and to get him into trouble for not having the right kit. imagine doing PE and then coming back to the changing room to find your clothes gone. Then imagine that despite being 11yo, you have the executive functions of the average 7-8yo and you don't understand where they've gone or why. Wouldn't that be distressing? And you lack the capacity to tell an adult what has happened even though you are verbal because your brain doesn't compute the idea of asking for help when you're in difficulty.

A NT child handed out party invites to every child in the class except my DS and when DS asked if he was invited the child told him "no r***s are allowed at my party".

A NT kicked my child in the stomach hard enough that my child had to go to A&E to be checked over and had a boot-shaped bruise in his abdomen. School punished both children, the NT child for kicking him and my child for touching the child's backpack (it had one of those flip-over sequin patterns on it) because apparently this touching prompted the kick and DS "has to learn not to touch".

A NT child tore the poppy off DS coat and ripped it up in front of him specifically to make him cry.

Several NT children refer to DS as "Sp**ka Stu" and deliberately bait him. School clamp down on it and it stops for a few weeks then it creeps back in.

See how I can generalise about NT children based on some NT children hurting my SN child?

He has support in class but not at break or lunch, we're working to have his EHC amended to give him support at these times.

Your post made me cry. I really hope you get some more support for your DC

12:27drspouse

"@DoubleDolphinWe see them all going off on outings together and we see that they don't ask us. We aren't blind."

That happens to everyone. Weve all heard about parties we werent invited to and seen kids going off in cars together. This sort of thing happens all the time.

@drspouse it's not a question of me deciding 'what is right for my child'. It's a question of finding an environment that meets the needs of his particular brand of SEN.
There is no choice - without it he will very simply not be educated at any school.

I feel that you are not listening to those of us whose experiences are across the sheer variety of SEN educational needs.

I disagree fully with your last point that a mainstream school could change to the extent needed for my son. Apart from anything else the sheer numbers of kids and size of the buildings would be totally overwhelming. And no, a small class within a larger school does not cut it.
It is not the same thing.

My experience as a SEN parent may be totally different to yours but it is every bit as valid.

Drspouse perhaps you need to not be so focussed on what you think is happening regarding parties and friends or lack of and concentrate more on just making sure you child is ok with that. Your child may not even notice and be happy with the state of affairs.

@DoubleDolphin

12:27drspouse

"@DoubleDolphinWe see them all going off on outings together and we see that they don't ask us. We aren't blind."

That happens to everyone. Weve all heard about parties we werent invited to and seen kids going off in cars together. This sort of thing happens all the time.

You’re being dismissive of someone’s lived experiences.

I’ve sort of argued the toss a bit too because anecdotally I know one woman who is convinced it’s to do with SN when it’s not.

But at the same time @drspouse isn’t the only parent on the thread who’s experienced exclusion like this.

Is it that important to be right? My guess is it absolutely IS prevalent that SN kids get excluded. I just think - don’t insist it happens to all kids all the time because it seems highly likely that it happens to SN kids a disproportionate amount of the time.

I sort of get where you are coming from.

I have 2 dc with SENs

I did struggle to make any sort of connection other than a very loose polite chat at the school gate during the early years to being completely ignored.

One other mum who had a very bright dc in Ds’s class did come over to me when her 2nd dc was about 2 years old and apologised to me for thinking that ds’s behaviour was down to my lax parenting as her youngest dc was also exhibiting the same signs as Ds (ADHD, dyslexia).

It didn’t really change much and we left the school soon after.

It's too broad a question to answer simply.

All three of mine had numerous children with SEN in their classes in primary and secondary. Some were violent and disruptive, the majority were not. It did mean DD3 got to learn Braille as they ran voluntary lessons at lunch time after the vidsually impared student's 121 braille session finished, and DS2 learnt sign language to better talk to his classmate. The children were all very accepting of "quirks" such as ChildA shouts out sometimes, and ChildB need to go to his quiet corner when he feels angry.

What I objected to was the staff using my children as support staff. DD3 sat next to a girl with dyslexia and the teacher expected her to help this child during lessons. The school didn't have funding for help in class, so the more able were expected to be disadvantaged in their own lessons by helping a classmate. Every day. For 2 terms until DD complained to me about resenting it and I brought it up with the school.

So anothert child was appointed Reader/Helper to the child wiuth dyslexia. FFS

Look no offence to any parent or child but my life is hectic enough without remembering whose child is who and who I is that child's parents, sure ds is friends with some children so I know those kids and parents but at school pick up and drop of i was there for a purpose so I chatted sometimes and not others but there was no conspiracy on 'oh I can't talk to them their child borrowed a pencil off my child 3 years and did not return it

Same with parties there is no hidden agenda.

Your kids are important to you (generally speaking) but there is not enough hours in the day to judge you or your kids

@WhatWouldJKRDo this happened to my niece is secondary school but with a child who was very troubled.

He had a lot of issues and my niece was constantly being pulled out of classes to emotionally support him.

It was extremely distressing for her and really unfair on them both. I know he didn’t have SN but he certainly needed a lot more support than pulling a kid out of class while he talked about wanting to die.

If nothing else this thread just highlights how unbelievably underfunded schools are in a hundred different ways!

@WhatWouldJKRDo My child has this with maths sometimes - he's very far ahead and sometimes sits with others who are behind. It's a valid learning strategy which helps both children when done well. School isn't just about the three Rs (althogh actually explaining topics you already understand to others has been proven to deepen your own knowledge).

Some posts on this thread are heartbreaking.

And some make my heart sink. Children with additional needs shouldn't be viewed as educational props or object lessons for the rest of the class.

What should be done about a boy with ASD who is bullied relentlessly, excluded, and ignored? He struggles mightily with social interactions, but he would never dream of hurting anyone other than himself. Yes, he sometimes reacts to the taunts and physical attacks by shouting. But he's the disruptive one? No. He is performing fine academically (in fact leagues ahead of his peers in some subjects). There isn't a specialist school anywhere that would be a more appropriate placement for him. So what should happen to him? Seriously, what?

The exclusion and unkindness absolutely extends to parents of other children. At primary school they would patronisingly say that it would be in his best interests not to invite him to their darling's birthday party because it would be "too much for him." How they came to that conclusion I have no idea, since they never took the time to get to know him at all. But I know he would have loved to be invited to a birthday party or playdate, even once. It never happened, though.

@HandfulofDust - If it's explaining how to do something (like in maths) it's a very useful way of consolidating learning and that's ace.

However, having her work interrupted every few minutes to read another question out loud for the child is not helping her, it's actively disrupting her writing.

@DolphinsAndNemesis

That's absolutely horrible. I do think people have a tendancy to become unbelievably selfish when it comes to their children.

@WhatWouldJKRDo

Yes that doesn't sound good for your daughter. The situation could have been managed better. In that case though there wouldn't be a specialist school available 'just' for dyslexia. The issue was probably lack of funds for adaquate 1-2-1 help. I still thinking helping other children is a great thing for your daughter - even and perhaps especially when it's slightly inconvenient for herself. That said it shouldn't be constant.

I think one very pressing problem is that the children who deliberately goad or bully SEN children are not dealt with the severity that is needed and their parents aren't hauled in about their behaviour to the same degree as parents of SEN do,, so it becomes a much bigger less supervised problem in secondary school.

"14:14PasstheBucket89

I think one very pressing problem is that the children who deliberately goad or bully SEN children are not dealt with the severity that is needed and their parents aren't hauled in about their behaviour to the same degree as parents of SEN do,, so it becomes a much bigger less supervised problem in secondary school."

And where is the support worker when this is happening?

"What I objected to was the staff using my children as support staff. DD3 sat next to a girl with dyslexia and the teacher expected her to help this child during lessons. The school didn't have funding for help in class, so the more able were expected to be disadvantaged in their own lessons by helping a classmate. Every day. For 2 terms until DD complained to me about resenting it and I brought it up with the school."

Absolutely this. My child, because she was ahead, had to sit next to a very disabled child , when no support worker. This child had severe speech issues and could only say one word, "ham", which she said to every question. My child had to teach her what they had been doing every day.

I think one very pressing problem is that the children who deliberately goad or bully SEN children are not dealt with the severity that is needed and their parents aren't hauled in about their behaviour to the same degree as parents of SEN do,, so it becomes a much bigger less supervised problem in secondary school

Ds was beaten up in front of some of the parents. One of the parents had to drag these boys off Ds who had a bloody nose. (I arrived about a minute later as I couldn’t park the car)
Ds was beaten up because he couldn’t read or write.
When we told the HT who had just come out into the playground he said we must be mistaken as those boys are good boys they go to church. (I am not Christian)
We then told his teacher who implied it was Ds’s fault as he didn’t know how to read or write.

Well that's the fault of the school @DoubleDolphin, they should have applied. for and EHCP for the child and got the funding for a 1:1 ,Did you complain? It seems like the school failed both children.

As a teacher, I've only ever found having children with SEN in the class helps to create tolerance, not just of the SEN child but for everyone. I taught a wonderful little girl last year with multiple needs & the others responded beautifully to her. Sometimes I would put her with a weaker child so they would gain a little bit more confidence by helping her with some paired work. So if they didn't feel they understood something entirely beforehand they would gain confidence by helping her. If she did separate work with an assistant, we'd always show it off to the rest of the class & they loved that. I did have a fab assistant though. The funding wax for that particular pupil but she helped any of the rest of them if needed too. I had a boy with additional needs in my class throughout school and everyone was always kind to him and treated him as a bit of a class hero. I would have no problems with my own children in time being in a class with children with additional needs & I'd encourage them to include them in games etc. It's life, we're not all the same, we all have different talents and abilities so it's only a good thing for children to go to an inclusive school!

@Oliversmumsarmy

I think one very pressing problem is that the children who deliberately goad or bully SEN children are not dealt with the severity that is needed and their parents aren't hauled in about their behaviour to the same degree as parents of SEN do,, so it becomes a much bigger less supervised problem in secondary school

Ds was beaten up in front of some of the parents. One of the parents had to drag these boys off Ds who had a bloody nose. (I arrived about a minute later as I couldn’t park the car)
Ds was beaten up because he couldn’t read or write.
When we told the HT who had just come out into the playground he said we must be mistaken as those boys are good boys they go to church. (I am not Christian)
We then told his teacher who implied it was Ds’s fault as he didn’t know how to read or write.

Wtf?? Please tell me you didn’t let that lie!

What I objected to was the staff using my children as support staff. DD3 sat next to a girl with dyslexia and the teacher expected her to help this child during lessons. The school didn't have funding for help in class, so the more able were expected to be disadvantaged in their own lessons by helping a classmate. Every day. For 2 terms until DD complained to me about resenting it and I brought it up with the school

Totally agree with this. My DD has experienced this in primary and secondary. We have raised it in secondary as have other parents. It’s not the child with SEN fault of course but it’s not my DD’s job to make up a funding shortfall. More money is the answer but will that ever be forthcoming?

Of course it won't. EHCP funding already falls below salary costs- our LA funds £10.60 per hour but actual costs, with pension and other on-costs, is around £16 per hour. So, on top of the notional £6000 schools have to fund, there is an additional £6 per hour to find.

I had already decided to remove dd and Ds from the school at the end of term.
I pulled Ds out immediately
Dd had managed to get into quite a good private school. Even the school receptionist made a nasty remark about her not having a chance of getting in.

Ofsted did go round a few weeks later for a surprise inspection after both dc had left.
It went from Outstanding to In special measures and the HT left.

Not sure who called them.

I had no support framework in the school. Dc had been there 2 years and apart from the incident after school where someone I knew from the previous school dc were at pulled the boys off Ds not one person spoke to me.

I wouldn’t have known who to complain to.

I get quite upset when I read on here about parents not stopping to talk to other parents. Even just passing the time of day. As they can’t be bothered/don’t want to get involved/have enough friends so they stick their head in their phone and ignore all those around them.
At the time I could go days without talking to another adult (Dp worked away) and just a friendly Hi or how are you or a couple of minutes of chat would have make the world of difference to someone

One woman did say how are you once then quickly followed it with I am not interested so don’t tell me and walked off.

At the time Dp was lay in intensive care in a New York hospital having collapsed at work with pneumonia.