To ask what mainstream parents really think about the kids with special needs.

[Willbob]

I have a child with SEN. He has complex needs; statement at three transferred to ehcp. We had to fight for a mainstream setting. He has full time 1:1. My older childer is very bright and now goes to a selective grammar school for secondary education. I had the "normal" school parent experience with him.

Other parents at school are mainly pleasant, some more so than others like any parent really but completely different to my my experience with my older child. I do wonder though for those who don't understand or know the sen world what you really think about the kids in your child school like my son? I imagine some like it and see the value of having them there, where as some see them as a drain on funding or a distraction. Just curious really. Though this maybe a good place to ask as anonymous.

@MillieEpple

notanothertakeaway - the children didnt miss out on music because the room was upstairs. They missed out as no-one made the capital investment in a lift, stair-lift or could be arsed to locate the music room downstairs.

Yes that's a good point

@Alongcameacat

There are two in DC’s class. There were three but one transferred to another (mainstream) school. At the beginning I thought it was a good lesson in inclusivity.

When the third child transferred, I was very glad to see that child go. He caused huge disruption in the classroom, hit other children weekly and the teacher spent a lot of time focusing on him. Some parents considered removing their own children because of his behaviour. The school did their best but it was relentless bad behaviour.
There are two other SEN children. One has very complex needs and is very bright. The other is a distraction in the classroom but does not hurt or injure other children.

If the school had not put in place enough help/sourced help through the LEA/an EHCP, then they have NOT done their best.

Bad behaviour isn't exclusive to SEN, either. See examples above. My DS is in a PRU and about 50% of the children have an EHCP. Which means the others don't (though of course some of them may have SEN, I'm fairly confident there are several whose behaviour has led to exclusion from school but who would not get a diagnosis of any SEN).

I've noticed a couple of parents of sen children comment how their children werent invited to parties and sleepovers. In my experience sleepovers arent that common anyway and some parents will only allow 1 child over, so perhaps they arent happening as often as you think. One of my children went to a handful and the other, none. I can sort of understand the reason for sen children not being invited to parties though, as often, children will just invite close friends or a small group and if they feel the sen child is a disruption in class, then they will worry that will happen at their pary. Very sad situation though and I feel for everyone involved. Life is often cruel.

Life is often cruel.
Indeed it is but when you are my DS and you see your sister being invited to playdates and parties and you are never invited, despite your friend's mum saying she will set something up, in your hearing, it seems rather unhelpful to say "life is often cruel".
He's 8. He knows life is cruel. He knows he struggles to behave appropriately, he knows he can't write nearly as well as even the DCs in his class who mainly also struggle with school work. He knows he gets anxious and that prevents him from doing things he'd actually like to do.
Would you tell your 8 year old "ah well, you have no friends, life is cruel eh?"

@drspouse

Life is often cruel. Indeed it is but when you are my DS and you see your sister being invited to playdates and parties and you are never invited, despite your friend's mum saying she will set something up, in your hearing, it seems rather unhelpful to say "life is often cruel". He's 8. He knows life is cruel. He knows he struggles to behave appropriately, he knows he can't write nearly as well as even the DCs in his class who mainly also struggle with school work. He knows he gets anxious and that prevents him from doing things he'd actually like to do. Would you tell your 8 year old "ah well, you have no friends, life is cruel eh?"

I know this isn’t addressed to me, but what is the alternative?

You can’t make someone invite him. You can’t make a parent have him over.

Does he at least have friends over to play at yours? I feel so sad for him reading your post.

There need to be far more specialised schools where children receive an education appropriate to their learning ability while their specific special needs are also supported e.g. PACE for CP etc.

If special schools provided education appropriately matched to the children's learning ability, and were dedicated to particular needs, I think a lot of children would be much happier as well as getting better education and support.

Putting a child with aggressive behaviour in a ms class is not acceptable. Not fair on anyone: the child, the other children, the teachers, the school or the parents. Cheapskate government policy. Same with children with a certain level of learning disabilities etc

We are not all the same, and should be allowed to accept our diversity. We cannot all learn in the same way or in the same environment.

I'm all for inclusion in ms if it works for the child, the class, the teacher etc and I do expect the school to do its best.

No music because the room was upstairs and one child couldn't go up the steps is totally disgusting. Absolute disgrace. I honestly thought it was law to make places accessible with eg lifts etc When did it happen? Where? In one of my DSs' schools, they built a lift where there'd been a store cupboard, just in case a pupil who was not able to climb the stairs started at the school. Quite right. Maybe there'll be a teacher or parent or other person who needs it too.

My DC does not have SEN and is never asked on play dates. As for sleepovers, they are a thing with only a small group of girls in the class whose parents are very friendly.

We have been on group play dates (where parents stay) with SEN kids.

I have noticed that the SEN kids do not play with their classmates on these group play dates. They run around on their own and don’t participate. When kids approach them to play, they wander off. I have also noticed that the SEN kids in my DC’s class always gravitate towards their classmates younger siblings.
I don’t know what the answer is.

No, he doesn't, because the friends he wants to have to play have parents that won't let them play with him (or, currently, they are classmates in his PRU who live much too far away and struggle themselves with playdates).
He hasn't had a friend to play since about Nov 2018.
He had 6 friends to his birthday party in Jan but none have invited him back or suggested going to the park or anything.
He went to the cinema with one friend in Feb half term this year. I've asked him if he wants to play with that friend again but he's only really interested in playing with the boys from his old school whose parents won't let them play with him. He hasn't seen them except in passing since July 2019 when he left that school.
There are some friends of mine who are parents of his former classmates but there are only so many times you can unilaterally suggest going to the park and then it doesn't happen.

(That was to @OhCaptain)

@Alongcameacat If we are at the park and DS is not playing "with" but playing "around" other children, it still makes him happy.
If you know a family like that, then don't say "oh, the DC isn't playing how I think children should play, so I won't invite them."

I’m perhaps lucky enough not to have any strong views.

I think that kids with any kind of SEN should always have the support they need, and trust that my DS’s school is providing that unless I’m told otherwise.

I guess I also follow the behaviour of other people I respect in relation to the couple of kids I know have SEN at the school, eg how forward I should be in chatting with those kids etc.

No, he doesn't, because the friends he wants to have to play have parents that won't let them play with him

Have you considered that the kids he wants to play with don’t want to play with him?
This is a lesson that all but the most popular kids have to learn once they leave reception behind.
My DC is starting to realise this now and it breaks my heart.
I can’t ring other parents and insist their children play with my child. DC is in a few groups outside of school. While they don’t make friends in swimming lessons etc, at least they are with other children.

There need to be far more specialised schools where children receive an education appropriate to their learning ability while their specific special needs are also supported e.g. PACE for CP etc.
Why does my DS have to be in a specialised school?
Should we stop letting children in wheelchairs into MS schools? This used to be the case - in fact, it used to be that children with wheelchairs were not expected
Why can't children receive the education they all need in the same school as other children?
Would you like separate shops and restaurants (not very many of them, and miles from my house) for families with a child with SEN?
Separate Guides/Scouts groups? Separate GP surgeries? Separate pharmacies?
Why should we have segregation? Because that's what you're proposing.

As a parent with one physically disabled, wheelchair using child and one without issues, I can see both sides. The other parents and children were very accepting of DS1 (he now attends a specialist school) but did regard me as some kind of superwoman and with an element of pity. DS1 was an exceptionally pretty, smiley child so pity was an element. Most were lovely, but clearly zero understanding of a disabled child and their care.

DS2 has no issues and there is an autistic child in his year who regularly lashes out at other children, and this concerns me, but I'm not otherwise bothered as he is usually kept calm by the TA. He also poked DS1 in the eye because he couldn't understand it would be painful and DS1 couldnt say he didn't like it or raise his hand to pull it away. His poor mum was embarrassed but DS1 was ok and we just watched more carefully when the boy came over to DS1.

So I'd say there is general acceptance on the part of parents, unless their child is being harmed by the other child. The 1 to 1s usually prevent any major issues with disrupting lessons, so education isn't impacted.

If you know a family like that, then don't say "oh, the DC isn't playing how I think children should play, so I won't invite them."

The invite is always made but only in groups. If I invited one SEN child on their own and that child ‘played around’ my child, my child would effectively be playing on their own too. Can you see why the non SEN child wouldn’t be in a rush to have another play date.

Have you considered that the kids he wants to play with don’t want to play with him?

I certainly have, but last time we saw child A was at after school pickup for my DD and the boy and my DS were both begging his mum to set up a playdate and mum insisted she would and then complete silence. Please don't tell any child - your own child or another child - that you will set something up for them to play together, and then not do it. There are much easier ways to not allow your child to play with my child.

But frankly, if a child can't include one more child in a group playing at the park, what are they learning about how to be friendly?
We see four or five families all heading off together or all playing together, all former classmates of DS, and he knows they will never ask him, I know they will never respond to me.

The invite is always made but only in groups.
We have not had a group invite since about Autumn 2017.

@drspouse

There need to be far more specialised schools where children receive an education appropriate to their learning ability while their specific special needs are also supported e.g. PACE for CP etc. Why does my DS have to be in a specialised school? Should we stop letting children in wheelchairs into MS schools? This used to be the case - in fact, it used to be that children with wheelchairs were not expected Why can't children receive the education they all need in the same school as other children? Would you like separate shops and restaurants (not very many of them, and miles from my house) for families with a child with SEN? Separate Guides/Scouts groups? Separate GP surgeries? Separate pharmacies? Why should we have segregation? Because that's what you're proposing.

If you read my post, and didn't only focus on one sentence, you would realise that I am not saying every child with any level of special needs should go to a specialised school.

I am saying that there needs to be a wider variety of schools that truly reflect the diversity of the human condition.

I have never said that children in wheelchairs should all go to a specialised school. Please read the final paragraph in my post you took that one sentence from.

By only focussing on your own child, you are forgetting all those with most likely more severe disabilities, or disabilities that make ms really difficult, isolating, stressful etc etc

you are forgetting all those with most likely more severe disabilities, or disabilities that make ms really difficult, isolating, stressful etc etc

But why should mainstream be like that for any child?
That's a problem with mainstream.
Not a problem with the child.

@drspouse

There need to be far more specialised schools where children receive an education appropriate to their learning ability while their specific special needs are also supported e.g. PACE for CP etc. Why does my DS have to be in a specialised school? Should we stop letting children in wheelchairs into MS schools? This used to be the case - in fact, it used to be that children with wheelchairs were not expected Why can't children receive the education they all need in the same school as other children? Would you like separate shops and restaurants (not very many of them, and miles from my house) for families with a child with SEN? Separate Guides/Scouts groups? Separate GP surgeries? Separate pharmacies? Why should we have segregation? Because that's what you're proposing.

You know, your post has REALLY infuriated me.

You seem to want no specialised schools, just throw everyone in together and expect them to thrive against the odds. CRUEL.

We are all different. We all have different abilities, and I love our diversity.

That is why we need a wider variety of schools including more specialised to help different children reach their potential educationally, physically and emotionally.

I wouldn't think anything either positive or negative unless the behaviour of that DC was having a negative impact on the other DC in the class. If a DC is disruptive, and I've had that experience in both my DC's classes, then my attitude goes from neutral to negative.

Obviously I wouldn't want to look on a child with SEN as a learning opportunity for my child but where their needs can be met within a mainstream school I do think it's a good thing for all children to mix with children with complex needs simply because they're part of society and school should be a microcosm of that. I want my child to grow up to be aware of others and caring and that starts in school.

Please don't tell any child - your own child or another child - that you will set something up for them to play together, and then not do it. There are much easier ways to not allow your child to play with my child
My child has had the same thing happen.
You are focussing (understandably) on this happening only because your child has SEN. It happens to non SEN children too. All the time in fact. I have had numerous conversations with DC attempting to explain that some adults make promises and are then too busy to fulfil them. It is t nice but it is life.

@drspouse

you are forgetting all those with most likely more severe disabilities, or disabilities that make ms really difficult, isolating, stressful etc etc

But why should mainstream be like that for any child?
That's a problem with mainstream.
Not a problem with the child.

Because we are so diverse.

We are not all the same.

You seem to advocate putting all children into the same class and that reflecting our diversity more would be segregation. I completely disagree with you.

Over and out, it is so frustrating!

You seem to want no specialised schools, just throw everyone in together and expect them to thrive against the odds. CRUEL.

Children with SEN do better overall in mainstream schools.
Mainstream schools need to be RADICALLY DIFFERENT but all children deserve to be in schools that take all children.
I do not believe in segregation in any other area of life so why would I think that schools should be segregated?

I also believe that NT children should learn to get along with children with SEN and vice versa. That is never going to happen if the assumption is "children should be in specialist schools if they can't cope with mainstream" not "mainstream needs to change drastically so it's suitable for all children".

We are praying that ds gets a placement in a specialist secondary after his experiences at a mainstream primary (he has spent time in mainstream and time in the complex needs resource base there).
Nearly the entire school and the culture of 'inclusion' has let ds down.
As parents we never felt part of the school community in the way we did at our dd's school.
I am sure there are good mainstream schools where inclusion works, and I am sure there are children who thrive in an inclusive mainstream school, but I think there are probably a lot of children like ds, for whom mainstream school is an almost entirely negative experience.