AIBU to give up a life's work to see my kids grow up

[doctormumoftwo]

I am thinking of leaving my job and I desperately need advice from other people who may have been in my position. I have two children who are 2 and 6. I work as a junior doctor/surgeon and am halfway through my training/exams. My DH is a full time a doctor. I love my job but it is very stressful. We could get by on DH salary alone but it would mean a big change in lifestyle (no holidays etc). I acknowledge I am very lucky to be in this position. I have been part time since I started but I am falling behind on my surgery and I have realised I can't continue part time as I need more surgical experience to gain competency. I also have final exams to take which means many hours of revision. I will be working flat out for the next 5 years minimum (nights, weekends, exams etc). Due to COVID our parents can not longer help regularly. It will be less stressful (but still demanding) as a consultant. DH cannot go part time to help. Despite the long hours we work, we can't afford private school, we live in a small flat with no garden. We will have to put the kids in school/nursery from 0745 - 6pm 5 days a week, or have a nanny for >50hrs for us to both work. My child's school is not great, there is not much community outside the school. My heart breaks for them, especially the 2 year old. I feel like I am sacrificing their childhood for my career. I have worked so hard to get where I am, invested money, time and incredible effort, but it feels like the demands of my job are just not compatible with being a decent mother. I don't know what to do. Our part time nanny recently quit handed in her notice. My child's reading is falling behind and they always ask me to play but I don't have the time to give them. I am thinking of giving up work and being a mum. I feel so guilty to continue leaving them for so many hours. I don't think a part time solution is going to work any longer because of the surgery, as I am falling behind and I spend many of my unpaid days off at work 'catching up'. I enjoy my job but I am incredibly stressed and sad about the toll it is taking on us all- that I know will not end for many more years. What should I do?

I would never give up my job to be dependent on a man. If you split up you've no idea how long it would take to split assets etc. I really encourage women to keep their financial independence.

Just read through and saw you have 5-6 years of training full time left which would mean you're around ST2/3?

I juggled my career and two dc and I'm so glad I did. I split from my ex due to his affair and I was in a financially stable position to stay in the house, buy him out, pay for childcare etc. My dc are now older and more self sufficient and again I'm glad I saw out my job, as I'm still financially stable, love my job and I now have the flexibility to be around a lot more for my dc. I have friends that made different choices to me and although seemed happier and with their kids in the early years it only took a few years and they said they wished they'd built up their careers.

I did miss out on some of my dc day to day stuff and I did use a childminder but both my kids are well rounded individuals and very sociable so I don't think I did too bad a job, and they didn't suffer as a result

I would carry on, even if it means a different discipline and needing to train again (GP?)? I think you will regret it when they are at school.
I think some careers are just harder to pick up later - IT (rate of change), medicine (the "track" is hard to hop on and off), certain types of law..
It's also a wonderful example to set for the kids once you're through this tricky time.

Easier to keep going really!

First, the oldest is only 6. Some children only start school at that age. There's no reading falling behind crap at that age.

Then, it seems to me that the father isn't having the same concerns. He needs to step up during this phase of your life massively, if necessary.

Finally, and this is for women in general, you cannot do everything. I wasn't going to have children before I did my PhD, let alone two.
Although my SIL needed to have her children during her junior years because of medical issues, or she might never have them.
If you do have children during difficult periods, your option shouldn't be to quit, but look what support you can get. Even if it is your OH that takes some leave.

It saddens me to see women throw away their careers and earning potential and independence.

He is nearly finished so he can't go part time- although he's allowed, it would have a negative impact on his career prospects

I hope you see the irony there.

I gave up my career and deeply regret it. I wouldn't make that decision if I could do it all again. If you do give up and you regret it, the resentment when you watch your OH progress and you stagnate is enormous.

You and your DH need to work together to find ways to solve this.

Would it be bearable if your DH would take the hit of part time? He needs to accept he either screws your career to benfit him (really, you’re the only looser if you quit) or does his share of putting up with raised eyebrows at work and not progressing as fast.

I work in a related speciality and we’ve only got one surgical female trainee in a large teaching hospital. Not easy.

Can you move sideways into anything slightly different that's less demanding for the next 5 years or so? The dc will grow up....

It sounds like you would benefits from seeing different perspectives.

Have you a mentor? Is there coaching available that could help you with these decisions. It is hard to see the fill picture and possible options when you are in the thick of it.

Sorting out home life sounds like it would help - including moving house.

Do you love surgery? There must have been a reason you went down that route in the first place as opposed to some of the more family friendly specialities. I have friends in a similar position to you and now they’ve both hit consultant levels, everything feels much easier. Are there options you can look at until the 2yo is in school?

@ShakerCan

The one thing I know is that, at the end, you won’t look back and smile fondly remembering the long hours working. You will look back and smile at the happy times spent with loved ones and your children.

I’m not saying quit, but I am saying change something so that you & your children have something to smile about when you look back.

If you’re smart enough to become a doctor, you’ve got the ability to find a solution. It doesn’t have to be all or nothing. Change something.

Speak for yourself. I found a lot of the times with my kids deeply monotonous, and certainly don’t have a lack of absolutely fabulous memories from when they were tiny, despite working both FT and PT. I do however, have some brilliant professional experiences from the same time.

My youngest started school last year and everything got SO MUCH easier.

Not a doctor but a lawyer - I swapped being a partner at a National firm to go in house when I had kids.

I felt I couldn’t give what was needed to the job or my kids before.

Not only can I stay working in an in house role, I have all the flexibility I need to be with my kids and I’ve even had time to get another masters and am studying for something else now (all with 2 kids under 5). All without a significant change in lifestyle (actually we moved to a much bigger house with massive garden about an hour away from where we were before although it is closer to family which helped with childcare etc).

I wouldn’t give up my job entirely if I were you, but I’d explore other options in your field be it another specialism, teaching etc...

Apologies for my shocking grammar and spelling. It’s early!

Also, the attitude you and your husband have towards him going part time is contributing to the sexism in medicine.

I'm sorry OP what an impossible situation.

I think it's such a huge thing to just give it up, are there really no other options? Or can you just keep on struggling by on part time, although it'll take longer for you to gain your competencies, you can then go full time when your children are older?

I sympathise with you though as I have similar age but slightly younger children, 4 and 1.5, and it really does go by too fast and I fully believe life is for living, not working. However you love your job and that is enviable - to do something you're so passionate about.

@doctormumoftwo
If I gave up we would move out of town (bigger home, garden, school) but it would mean a long commute for DH, (which he doesn't mind if I was at home to support him). He is nearly finished so he can't go part time- although he's allowed, it would have a negative impact on his career prospects (there is still quite a lot of sexism about this in medicine). There is a big chance I would may regret giving it up it in the long run but I feel totally stuck in the short term- I have 5-6 more years of very intense full time work and it breaks my heart to have to sacrifice all the time with my kids for that achievement.

As you said above OP, your DH CAN go part time but wont because of the impact on his career. Not as big as the one on yours if you quit?! Why is childcare and shouldering the guilt of not meeting their needs all on you?

This is your problem. I wouldn't quit personally.

Friends of ours both trained in similar fields. They arranged it so their training ran one after the other. Whilst one was training, the other worked all the hours they could to support. Then they switched.

The one thing I know is that, at the end, you won’t look back and smile fondly remembering the long hours working. You will look back and smile at the happy times spent with loved ones and your children. I look back at both fondly. I'm a care home manager which is an intense job but I love it because I make a difference to people. I also look back on the time with my children fondly as I appreciated it so so much. And I am so proud of myself for building my career from carer to manager as a single parent with no help. So don't generalise.

Don't become reliant on your DH. Keep working. Find more childcare. He needs to step up. Long game.

I trained LTFT in radiology after having my children. I worked 3 days a week plus on call which was doable. As a service specialty it's easier to walk away at the end of the day and you don't have the responsibility of patients on wards. The exams are tough, but my training scheme was awesome at helping you through them. Working full time as a consultant can mean working only 4 days a week on site, or less if you have home reporting. I work 4 days as I work 1 long day, but can do my evening session from home. Even though I'm working, I'm still a presence at home. My husband is a medic too and we've made it work. We can't have put the kids off as the 2 teens both want to study medicine! They can see we have fulfilling careers but also have time for them.
We welcome trainees who have experience in other specialties as they bring extra skills. Consider radiology as an option. We didn't do nights when I trained but many places do now which would be a problem though- unless your husband can help out and arrange his shifts appropriately. Again that's not impossible if you're motivated!!

Those saying give up your job - what are you doing now DCs are older/ have left home?
I was a sahm and I think it doesn't have to be you at home with the DCs. A good nanny who is being paid for all the tedious work prob does it better than a bored sahm.
It needs to be a live in one imv - could DGPs give a loan so you can move or have a full time nanny orcould DGPs move in for a few years. Im a DGP and dochildminding - is it using public transport that worries them? I can't read your initial post- how many years have you done? How long have you got to do?
I don't like the sound of the consultant role bottle neck that is mentioned above, will you've expected to go above and beyond to prove eligibility ?

I gave up teaching as I was spreading myself too thin. Haven't regretted it. I'm now able to do the school run and know what is going on in my children's lives. Before the childminder saw teachers before and after school, chatted to parents at the gate and heard all about my children's day.
I still work in education but part time with no work at home and I'm able to do stuff for me too like my master's degree so when the children are older I can do something a bit more demanding.
My mental health is so much better. I enjoy my children and have fun.
Don't rush the decision as everyone is different.

@MitziK

Am I the only person here who thinks it's crazy to chuck away a career with lifelong financial independence for a man that might not be around in ten years' time?

It's not doing it for the children, it's doing it so he doesn't have to trouble himself with them.

Stick it out. That way, you wont be dependent upon a good lawyer getting a fair maintenance arrangement if it goes tits up.

This. How will you feel if a few years down the line he is having an affair with someone from work and your marriage crumbles. Of course that very probably won’t happen but it’s one of the many what ifs that you need to fully consider.

I agree that the sexism is embedded in your marriage and not just the NHS. You would be giving up your career for your husband, not for your children. Whatever you decide, do it in the full knowledge of that uncomfortable fact.

I haven't read the whole thread so apologies if I'm repeating others.
Are you on Facebook? There are some good support groups for junior doctors on there. Those who have been in that situation might be able to help. Try one called 'Tea & empathy' as a starting point

At my daughters old prep school the school receptionist who just helped a few hours a day is a highly intelligent woman, she attended Cambridge, became a doctor and specialised however gave it all up for her two children and to support her surgeon husband, she was very comfortable with her decision and supported a lot of us parents many times I was running late and she helped me out, amazing woman and followed the path she wanted to rather than what was expected of her.