AIBU to give up a life's work to see my kids grow up

[doctormumoftwo]

I am thinking of leaving my job and I desperately need advice from other people who may have been in my position. I have two children who are 2 and 6. I work as a junior doctor/surgeon and am halfway through my training/exams. My DH is a full time a doctor. I love my job but it is very stressful. We could get by on DH salary alone but it would mean a big change in lifestyle (no holidays etc). I acknowledge I am very lucky to be in this position. I have been part time since I started but I am falling behind on my surgery and I have realised I can't continue part time as I need more surgical experience to gain competency. I also have final exams to take which means many hours of revision. I will be working flat out for the next 5 years minimum (nights, weekends, exams etc). Due to COVID our parents can not longer help regularly. It will be less stressful (but still demanding) as a consultant. DH cannot go part time to help. Despite the long hours we work, we can't afford private school, we live in a small flat with no garden. We will have to put the kids in school/nursery from 0745 - 6pm 5 days a week, or have a nanny for >50hrs for us to both work. My child's school is not great, there is not much community outside the school. My heart breaks for them, especially the 2 year old. I feel like I am sacrificing their childhood for my career. I have worked so hard to get where I am, invested money, time and incredible effort, but it feels like the demands of my job are just not compatible with being a decent mother. I don't know what to do. Our part time nanny recently quit handed in her notice. My child's reading is falling behind and they always ask me to play but I don't have the time to give them. I am thinking of giving up work and being a mum. I feel so guilty to continue leaving them for so many hours. I don't think a part time solution is going to work any longer because of the surgery, as I am falling behind and I spend many of my unpaid days off at work 'catching up'. I enjoy my job but I am incredibly stressed and sad about the toll it is taking on us all- that I know will not end for many more years. What should I do?

Hi, sounds you are in the eye of the career storm at the moment, you and your husband have demanding jobs and you also have small children.

I would urge you not to give this up and try to ride out this storm for the next few years. Your children will be OK as they have interested and engaged parents. The guilt doesn't go away even if you change jobs.

Me and my husband both have big jobs, our kids were in nursery 7am to 6pm every day. Honestly they are fine. The fact that you have chosen to specialise in surgery tells me how driven you are. The nanny will definitely help.

I was made redundant in 2017, I effectively did not work for a year, I did enjoy spending time with my children but I definitely was not fulfilled. I have a new level of respect for stay at home care givers. I am a better parent when I have a career.

Good luck

I’m kinda grappling with this too at the moment but in law. Have 1 2 year old DC and another in the way. Was getting to top of career a few years ago but was v stressful and I wanted kids so quit. Did a non practising role 4 days a week.

Bored out my skull and want to go back to client facing role but know will massively miss out on my kids lives (and will need FT nursery) if I do as with my specialism there is simply no part time option, it just won’t work.

Can’t decide whether to sacrifice my sanity (being bored as shit) to give them time with me. It’s bloody hard.

All these deathbed comments. My dad is hopefully not on his deathbed just yet but he's very seriously ill. It's been clear to me when visiting that he's been lying there mulling over his career triumphs. Definitely not how he should have spent more time with his family. I don't mind. I know he loved his career and both he and my mum are absolutely passionate about what they do/did even now they're 80ish. It's good for parents to have objectives and enthusiasms beyond their children.

Besides, I selfishly want him to have the best choice of doctors, not just the ones who've managed to find a stay at home partner or stay childfree.

Just because I want to work doesn't mean I look down on SAHPs

I will freely admit that I 'ain't got it' when it comes to full time parenting of small children. I could barely stand maternity leave. I was insanely depressed the first time and just bored the second time. I honestly think my kids are better off with me not being forced into that role and doing it with a bad grace.

That is why I think both parents should have the choice to work as much as they want and parent as much as they want. Split 50:50 or go with 1 at home 1 at work but let it be a free choice not always the mother who has to stay home for no good reason. If you love it and you are good at it and your partner can and wants to support you then that is all good. Just please let's not decide it based on sex. Dads need to be equal parents.

I can also confirm that my Danish friend says being a stay at home mum is not a concept in Denmark or Norway. The maternity leave is so generous for both parents and the childcare so good and cheap that hardly anyone chooses to give up work there as it is possible to share things much more evenly. I remember how surprised she was that things were not the same here.

Being an older people's Dr means I really do get to talk to quite a lot of people who are on their deathbeds. To be quite honest those that literally are ain't exactly talkative

But of those who are elderly and nearing the end of their lives they very often love talking about their jobs. Teachers, engineers, builders, architects, scientists, people who worked in factories and on the land. Usually their faces light up and they delight in telling me about their best career moments and that's men and women. I don't get the impression any of them regret it. Far from it.

Regrets are more usually about failed relationships and estranged family members and having been a SAHP doesn't seem to protect you from that particularly.

Some people do tell me how much they enjoyed child rearing but I'd say less. I guess they more usually talk about their children and grandchildren as a present source of joy than a past reminiscence because usually those relationships grow and change over a whole lifetime and aren't confined just to a few childhood years.

For retired Drs of both sexes they usually love being addressed as Dr and spoken to as a colleague. It's nearly always still a source of huge pride and pleasure to them and I have not yet found one who expressed regret despite them often telling me what hard work it was.
It is really fulfilling work being a Dr. It is a privilege in many ways.
I would not give it up easily and I will definitely be telling them to address me as Dr and having an opinion on my choice of laxatives when I'm 90 and demented in a care home.

That’s a nice post, @Theld. I will absolutely be one of those careerist nonogenarians.

I know a doctor couple who have managed this by both switching to part time hours on different schedules so someone is mostly there with the kids (and can supplement with locums if you need extra money for a holiday or whatever
But it worked really well for them and their boys x

I guess they more usually talk about their children and grandchildren as a present source of joy than a past reminiscence because usually those relationships grow and change over a whole lifetime and aren't confined just to a few childhood years.

This and those early childhood years are^ short which is why, if you have a career you love, it can be a positive part of your life long after your children are independent.

My mum called earlier this evening to tell me she has been nominated for a prestigious award for her work. Am I (or is she) regretting she didn't dedicate 100% of her life to taking care of her children? Of course not. I do not think we have been terribly damaged by this, quite the opposite.

Blimey. All this talk about not having this time back! OP isn’t thinking of joining a research base in the Arctic. However many hours she works, she will be living with her children and being their mother. She will see all those stages, just not 24/7.

When I worked part time, I ended up doing so much unpaid work in my own time that eventually it made sense to get paid properly and work more hours.

We ran ourselves absolutely ragged working around the children when actually buying in childcare might have been better. My colleague had a full time nanny for years who did the kids laundry, lunchboxes and cleaned their bedrooms. They had a cleaner twice a week. Meanwhile we were up to our eyes with juggling.

We are at a point of maximum responsibility in work but the kids are growing up, going to University. We are looking ahead to retirement. We have financial security. We can support our kids with getting started in life.

One of my DDs had difficult to diagnose appendicitis on and off for 4 months which ended with her being really unwell. It was horrendous and as an HCP I get a little flashback when the A&E is congested message pops up on screen in work. Through the whole ordeal, the female doctors and in particular the female surgeon and her registrar were amazing. We need women and men working in all specialties.

I’ve always thought the deathbed comment is utterly inane. I’ve always imagined that when looking back on their life, most people will feel proud of their achievements and experiences - which I imagine include career highlights, places visited, people met, and yes, family relationships too. It’s lovely to see that Theld’s experience confirms that.

I am immensely thankful that I was able to have children and raise them into wonderful adults but there are many other facets of life I feel proud of too, including my career, people I’ve met and experiences I’ve had through my work life.

I decided to be at home for my three and have NEVER regretted it. They're 24, 19 and 12 and we have a great relationship

What a lovely comment @Theld! I hope the OP reads it.

Op we all have different perspectives on things.

There was no way due to my personal circumstances or experience that I could put my dc into care when they were non verbal.
I had a partner, but on a very small wage and our position was precarious without family back up.
10 years later I'm working, money has eased considerably.
During that previous 10 years I became an expert at food shop discount Times, and sourcing the free cheap goods to get us the best for least.
Free cycle, paint heavily reduced because the tin was damaged, reduced plants, clothes etc.
One year we spent 1 night on '' holiday ''. One night.

One car, no personal treatments... Dh cut his own hair...

I'm 45. I've been on this planet 45 years. Hopefully at least 30 more.
75 years.
Is a few years, without '' holidays '' career progression too much?
People with much less do much more.
My dd was a surprise, there is no way with a planned baby would I leave them long hours with nursery until they were verbal. Caveats of course.

TheId you speak so much sense.
People speak and think of their children of the here and now rather than the babies they once were.

• beautiful post theld but having been at the bedside of both my dying dp, I was the one there, out of my siblings. Df was very busy when other siblings were little and he was very remote to them as adults. He changed his job when I was born and we spent hours together, reading, playing golf, he taught me cricket... Watching films.

Dm also had time.

Sadly my other siblings had a totally different experience to me and whilst I agree it comes down to personality, and who gets on with who, I'm really glad and I treasure the effort df and dm put in with me.

When dp died I was of course devastated. But I was also comforted... There was nothing to regret...

That's a really interesting perspective @Theld

@doctormumoftwo I'm a doctor and had to make decisions around similar circumstances to yours. I moved into research briefly and also part time NHS work. It's working out ok. I would advise not to quit your job as many others have advised. Ive come to realise that the job defined my identity and life fulfilment much more than I was aware.

When I posted similar question on Mumsnet a few years ago someone suggested FB group called Alternative careers for doctors. The members are very supportive and offer great advice.

Clearly not an easy choice but I'd quit. I would hate to spend my kids' early years like you describe.

I'm now part time having accepted that I cant earn what I want/am capable of AND be the parent I want to be. I feel very lucky being able to be part time. When DC get older and I'm not really needed, I will take stock and see what I can do.

Sorry, 1 more thing re theld post.

I also worked for a year in an old folks home, very expensive but rubbish back then.

It wasn't photos of them in their jobs by their beds. It wasn't work colleges they spoke out or wanted to visit.

I quit. I reckoned I could always have a job somehow but I would never get this time back with DC. Not regretted it for a minute (apart from the odd pang of ‘I could be earning XYZ by now’) and now they are at school I am looking forward to going back part time.

Your kids will grow up and suspect you’ll regret giving it all up. Many options- medicine in general has so many branches. Retrain in a speciality other than surgery that has less ego and more opportunity to work flexibly. Be mindful that smaller specialties (that you might come across rarely) will be busy as might only be a couple of them per Trust or working across multiple Trusts so work volume remains high.
Second issue- you’ll be a consultant longer than a junior, but you’re totally blinkered if you think job will be less stressful as you get more senior! You have to stay top of your clinical game, lead a department, a service, manage dozens of people, governance etc, etc. The advantage is that you can be more flexible with hours and arrange timetable that suits. The last few months have been horrific for many, also outside medicine. Wouldn’t rush into decisions like that now. Some of the problems you describe won’t be fixed by giving up work

@mids2019

Consider academia OP....A couple of medics I was acquainted with did postdoctoral work in MRI providing clinical experience for trials

There will be roles in lecturing I am sure

Palliative medicine as well seems to be a little less intense

I can only imagine the puzzled look I'd get if I ever suggested anything remotely similar to my surgeon brother when he had younger children. Followed by a huge laugh.

Or, as pps have mentioned, to OP's husband.

@Dozer

‘Mummy friendly’ jobs

😂 it was in inverted commas for a reason. A bit tongue in cheek obviously 🙄 but I meant jobs that fit in with you and your chosen lifestyle at the time.

Theld makes some very good points. I'm a childless consultant. I'm pretty sure that when I come to review my life, the children who I successfully resuscitated, the families where I made a difference, and the students/trainees I've helped thrive will all feature. I strongly suspect they'd still feature even if I did have children. What we do isn't just a career. It's a passion, a vocation, and an integral part of our identity. That's a lot to give up.