AIBU to give up a life's work to see my kids grow up

[doctormumoftwo]

I am thinking of leaving my job and I desperately need advice from other people who may have been in my position. I have two children who are 2 and 6. I work as a junior doctor/surgeon and am halfway through my training/exams. My DH is a full time a doctor. I love my job but it is very stressful. We could get by on DH salary alone but it would mean a big change in lifestyle (no holidays etc). I acknowledge I am very lucky to be in this position. I have been part time since I started but I am falling behind on my surgery and I have realised I can't continue part time as I need more surgical experience to gain competency. I also have final exams to take which means many hours of revision. I will be working flat out for the next 5 years minimum (nights, weekends, exams etc). Due to COVID our parents can not longer help regularly. It will be less stressful (but still demanding) as a consultant. DH cannot go part time to help. Despite the long hours we work, we can't afford private school, we live in a small flat with no garden. We will have to put the kids in school/nursery from 0745 - 6pm 5 days a week, or have a nanny for >50hrs for us to both work. My child's school is not great, there is not much community outside the school. My heart breaks for them, especially the 2 year old. I feel like I am sacrificing their childhood for my career. I have worked so hard to get where I am, invested money, time and incredible effort, but it feels like the demands of my job are just not compatible with being a decent mother. I don't know what to do. Our part time nanny recently quit handed in her notice. My child's reading is falling behind and they always ask me to play but I don't have the time to give them. I am thinking of giving up work and being a mum. I feel so guilty to continue leaving them for so many hours. I don't think a part time solution is going to work any longer because of the surgery, as I am falling behind and I spend many of my unpaid days off at work 'catching up'. I enjoy my job but I am incredibly stressed and sad about the toll it is taking on us all- that I know will not end for many more years. What should I do?

Some of these latest posts are downright insensitive and offensive. Have any of you read the full thread FFS?

There have been loads of posts upthread about people who regretted (or whose mothers regretted) giving up their careers. TraderJoe's post about her Mum was particularly grim. So many medics have come onto this thread to explain why you can't just drop out of medicine and pick it up again a few years later. Please read the thread and take on board what people who know what they're talking about are saying!

Opportunities will arise for more ‘Mummy friendly‘ jobs if that is what you want Jesus Christ perhaps OP's DH could get a "Daddy Friendly" job and go to sports day etc

Haven’t read the full thread so not sure I’d this has been said but there is way too much snobbery in the medical field as if selling your soul and missing your kids childhood on the path to hallowed consultancy is ok.
Get off the training treadmill and find a trust grade job somewhere doing something you enjoy that let’s you have the best of both worlds. Idiots might try and make you feel like a less worthy doctor but actually you’d be the smart one who actually worked out how to have a good career with a work life balance.
There is light at the end of the tunnel I promise!

As the mum of two boys now in their 20's who were in nursery/school from 8am to 6pm from being a few weeks old all I can say is do what is right for you.
I chose to work and discussed it with them when they where in their teens, they wanted me to work and appreciated that it improved their standard of living.
I asked them about it again in their 20's and they both said they didn't feel that they missed out on anything.

Children need their parents, not a nanny.

Do they? I mean I feel yes they need their parents, but not 24/7. I like that DS is happy and secure with being in childcare, and he loves being around us too- I think it's good for children to be honest to be around others their age and in different environments.

Also the no one wishes they worked more, yeah but they might well wish they'd followed their passion and carried on with the last bit of their training to continue on in a job they love, that makes a difference to the world, and can provide financial stability, rather than giving that up and hoping for any job years down the line.

I shall tell my children - all grown up and happy and successful that they needed me more growing up.
I suspect they’ll laugh 😂

I sympathise with you, your post really put an ache in my heart.
The way I see it, careers and jobs are one thing when you don't have children. But once we have made the decision to bring children into our lives, we need to put things into perspective. Before deciding to have children it is so incredibly important to decide whether that child will be able to receive your nurture and care and quality time and love. In the younger years especially of a child's life, it is so vital that you are close so they can relate their feelings of happiness or sadness, so you can be there as their warmth.
The way you relate it, it seems as though there isn't a financial need, and that your career is actually acting as a vicious cycle. It isn't helping your family life and whilst you enjoy your job, it is also making you miserable.
Children will never grow small again, you will never get this time back. Cuddle them, listen to their voices speak excitedly about the most trivial of things, and always give them a listening ear.
A career is something that can be achieved later on in life, it isn't impossible.
End of the day, what are the real joys of this world?
I hope you make the best decision

I've been on MN for years but never post. Couldn't ignore this one. I'm a consultant physician. Worked part-time since ST4 level. Work sort of part-time now. Have had bad times and good. Have bust my ass to get the job I wanted, then not always wanted it when I got it.
My kids are late teens now. I sometimes wish I'd spent more time with them, that they'd spent less time in after school club but I can't regret my career. It has contributed to me being the person I am and the mum that they know. They think I'm a great mum (mostly), they have lots of great memories and they're super proud of me, even more so since Covid.

Haven't got time to RTFT but I'd advise not to give up on medicine completely but consider different specialty or grade. You may be fixed on a specific branch of surgery but there are soooooo many careers in medicine and so many routes to get there.
Consider a non-training post, even in surgery. Consider getting to surgery later, maybe via CESR. If you want to be a highly specialised surgeon in a fancy hospital the competition will be fierce and your work-life balance will be awful. If you can tolerate something more general somewhere more mundane you'll find employment. There is a lot of snobbishness in medicine about working in London or wherever - don't buy into that. Choose a nice area, get a nicer job. I don't know if you can contact me directly but I'm happy to help. Stick with it, but maybe not with training in surgery. Be happy

I changed jobs, went part time, fairly big pay cut. No regrets.
(Not a surgeon or anything remotely as amazing! that’s a lot of study to say goodbye to) huge decision!
Is there anything else you could do in that field, in a few years? Or anything in a related area you could do part time now? Big decision, good luck!

There are a lot of posters talking about how important it is to dedicate your life to children and career can wait. Notice how none of them has suggested that OP's DH gives up his job to nurture his children..

And no, in some careers you can't just pop out for 10 years and pick it up again. It's like climbing Mount Everest, and just before you get to the top, saying that nah, I'll come back some other time.

Haven’t RTFT but as a 41 y/o mum of a now 14 and 11 year old. I regret giving up my career as I’m now doing a low paid job which could quite frankly be done by a monkey and my kids are never home, too busy out with their friends etc. I’m bitter today because I’ve fought with the eldest but, honestly, they won’t need you so desperately forever. Maybe finish the training then work p/t if possible?. I’m not sure but think carefully OP. Best of luck whatever you decide.

Why do people feel the need to say over and over again on these threads that 'you never get the time back'? Is this a common misconception that needs correcting, that you might get a second go at your children's childhood so you can have a practice run first? Are there other types of time you can get back? If I accept that I can't relive DS's first year can I have being 21 back? This time round I think I'll just wear a bikini and kiss good-looking boys for the whole year.

hardback I had twins second time round.
Can I swap the nine months pregnancy for a back pack around South America with Tom Hardy?

In a family - both parents ideally wouldn't be working full time. My husband is a lawyer and as his earning potential is more, we decided he would be the career person and I will be the one spending more time at home. I decided to be a GP on medical school. I did my hospital specialities whilst having one child - those days there were 24 hr on calls and I collapsed from exhaustion during one of them. I did my training full time so when my eldest was almost 3, I would finish and work part time. Since then I feel I had the best of both worlds.

Surgical training is hard. Once your husband qualifies is he able to sacrifice for a few years until you finish your training?

Have you talked to other female surgeons (I know there aren't many for the same reasons). Find out how they did it.

I was lucky to be supported by my in laws whilst I was training. But I knew there was an end in sight..... is completing your training full time an option so you get it done quicker and have a higher chance of getting the exposure you need?

Even if you spend all your salary, outsource everything else -cleaning, cooking etc. so when you are at home, you can focus on your family.

@Hardbackwriter

Why do people feel the need to say over and over again on these threads that 'you never get the time back'? Is this a common misconception that needs correcting, that you might get a second go at your children's childhood so you can have a practice run first? Are there other types of time you can get back? If I accept that I can't relive DS's first year can I have being 21 back? This time round I think I'll just wear a bikini and kiss good-looking boys for the whole year.

Because its a way of guilt tripping women into doing what men want. I’ve never heard anyone saying this to dads to get them to give up work,

If you are thinking about it you obviously want to do
It !
Right?
I would say do it !!
I’m a Nanny so I know what you’re missing
I know my job depends on you guys working but
If I was a Mum I would totally quit working !!

Hi there . I personally never once regretted having a career break in a surgical specialty . Was a Reg . Came back after 5 years as part time SAS grade and was the envy of friends who soldiered on or gave up . As with most parenting decisions, I hope you let yourself follow your instinct. X

doctormumoftwo, whatever you decide for now I am sure you will go back to your career and fulfill those dreams.

For the record I've known several doctors with children who worked full time. Two in particular come to mind, both consultants; one had three children and the other four. They employed nannies, very good ones, but their children came first in everything and grew up beautifully. They had good annual leave entitlement and great family holidays. Husbands were also consultants and committed to family life.

The children loved having successful mothers and were proud of them.

It is possible to have a demanding career and be a good parent so don't be downhearted if you have to pause for a while.

You need to follow your instinct OP & obviously have the full agreement of your partner. I gave up a well-paid, exciting and only upwards trajectory career because I simply wanted to be with my son more than that job allowed me to be. The flip side was that I couldn’t only do that, for financial reasons and because frankly, going to work is a hell of a lot easier than 100% at home. I was also a single-parent & felt the sting that stigma bitterly so it was important to me to support myself. It wasn’t easy, especially the massive pay cut, but I very much wanted to be there for him & not always be juggling. A part-time job became more hours & more responsibility & then suddenly by default more than design, I was made MD of an SME. The juggling was horrid and when I was put under immense pressure by a new company owner I had a breakdown. I left. I got a new P/T job with no prospects & we were very happy again! When he was about 13, I got a full time role and it’s been great, I’ve been promoted a few times and whilst I’ll never get to the earning power of the original career, we’ve got enough and a head full of glorious memories too.

You have kids, you raise them. do you and your partner live off benefits then @Angrywife?

OscarWildesCat Haven’t RTFT but as a 41 y/o mum of a now 14 and 11 year old. I regret giving up my career as I’m now doing a low paid job which could quite frankly be done by a monkey and my kids are never home, too busy out with their friends etc.

Are you really stuck in your current role or can you start something new? You've got another 25 working years ahead of you. I went very p/t for a few years when DS was younger, then took a low pay term-time only job and now he's a teen have a better unrelated job.

Cuddle them, listen to their voices speak excitedly about the most trivial of things, and always give them a listening ear. Ah yes you can't possibly work and do these things. I honestly think some women kid themselves into thinking that because they don't want to work. It's fine if you don't and can get by without benefits but it doesn't mean it's the only way to be a good parent. No one ever says this to men.

@Pluckedpencil

I am not a doctor or a surgeon, just a mum who worked full time. I can only tell you that by around 8 years old they need you less intensely. Could you maybe put it on hold for six or seven yeara?

Totally agree with this if this is an option for you. My eldest is 9 now, such a different dynamic these days x

I'll have to say it again for all those advising OP to 'step back' 'take a break' 'come back to it later'

You can't take a break and go back to surgery later
Not at all. No chance. You quit you quit for good.

If you try to take a break or stop progressing in medicine within the first about 5 years of junior training posts your degree will be worth nothing. You have to get postgrad experience and exams to be able to work at all. Just having the degree doesn't open the door to any stable job that you can just stay in at a low level. Those jobs don't exist in medicine. They are all filled by people progressing up from the bottom through a rigid training structure.

All your degree entitles you to is a succession of 6 month training posts that you need to pass each year. If you fail early on you don't work as a Dr at all. You need to make it at minimum 2 years and most likely 5 in training posts to have any hope of a permanent position even as a staff grade.

The option to take recognised time out in research and come back would only be available at registrar level ie at least 5 years full time post graduation.

The system is administered at a national level for each specialty to control numbers and you have a training number. If you take too much time out or you 'fail to progress' you lose your training number and thereby your job and prospects and it would be very hard to ever get it back because you would be competing with each years new grads.

The minimum length training for a permanent job is currently for GP which takes 5 years full tome after graduation. Other specialties take 8-10 years full time to become a consultant and you would need to complete at least 5 to be able to get a non-training staff grade post even.

If OP quits now without completing CT3 and membership exams she may not be employable in any job in medicine at all despite her degree and all these years of training so far.
There are no little part time jobs to divert into. You might be lucky to get a staff grade job but you might not.

And don't forget they can't just up sticks and move to another part of the country. The criteria for inter deanery transfers are very rigid.

Hello,
I put my son into nursery a week after he turned 1, trained, worked, returned to uni to graduate when he turned 6. I was deeply unhappy about those decisions for many years. Got a lot of negativity from many quarters. But here's the thing, my DS is a very happy stable boy considering he's grown up in a single parent household.
If you wanted to give up work it would be totally fine but sounds like you are really passionate about your work.
You can do it