Find a man without children is the holy grail.

[Adviceneeded20]

One of my closest friends said to me this morning that finding a man without children in your 40s is like finding the holy grail of relationship goals.

I was telling her about little things that niggle me about DP (who is wonderful to be fair) and she said that I’m lucky I’ve found a man with no DC and that i need to make it work because I’ve found the holy grain

Is she right?

YANBU - finding a man with no DC is the holy grail.

YABU - who cares if he has children or not.

@Pelleas Agree, well said!

No one would dare say a woman past 40 was immature and not grown up. Just another example of the double standards of MN.

**I think to find someone in their 40s without children would be unusual to say the least!

@dottiedodah It wouldn't be that unusual. Around 20% of women in the UK never have children and I imagine that percentage would be higher for men.

Worth having in mind that not having had kids tends to delay the process of growing up

Bollox. I know someone with no children who decided not to have children because she couldn't find the right person to be their father until in her mid 30s- and was then unable to have children. They are doing IVF now, and she is 37.

In contrast, I know someone else, around the same age, has six kids by 5 fathers, all absent. Still acts like a teenager.

I know which one has made the better, more mature decisions.

Really insulting and insensitive to suggest you aren’t “grown up” until you have children.

So a 17 year old father of 2 kids to different teenage mothers who spends his days smoking weed and playing on his xbox is more “grown up” than a 40 year old Head Teacher who hasn’t had much time for relationships or can’t have children of his own?

Those of you who hold such views do realise it’s possible to have never had children by choice or circumstances and still be responsible adults don’t you? It might be us who have to educate your children, or perform surgery on them, or prosecute those who hurt children. We are devoted Uncles, Aunts, Godparents. Some of us, like me, might have spent our youth as young carers and had to grow up much quicker than our peers to keep our loved ones alive and cared for as well as looking after ourselves.

Such a sneery, narrow minded attitude.

I have a male friend, just about to turn 40, doesn’t have children (never been married) and is adamant he won’t date a woman with children.

We have told him that it’s unlikely he will find a woman his age who doesn’t have children and he may have to compromise (especially as he continues to get older), but he’s having none of it.

Horses for courses. She’s been a stepmum by the sounds of things. It can be brutal.

Better for her to know what she wants and refuse to settle than end up in the shit situation lots of women on here end up in because having any man, no matter how complicated or useless, is better than being single.

Why on earth should he compromise Queen?

I’m mid 30s and have never had children or been married, QueenofPrinces and I have several friends similar to me, some of them being 40 and older. We’d love to meet a good man of 39 with no children, so he’s not that unrealistic - we do exist!

If DH and I separated there is no circumstances where I would ever enter any kind of blended family arrangement. I wouldn't have a live in partner either.

They can have children or not, but I wouldn't connect our lives in any way, just nice dates, weekends away and decent sex.

I didn't have the best blended family setup growing up, my brother and I were nobodies priority and I won't do that to my children.

It may be a factor but this is my second marriage, I lost my first husband very young.

@QueenofmyPrinces

I have a male friend, just about to turn 40, doesn’t have children (never been married) and is adamant he won’t date a woman with children.

We have told him that it’s unlikely he will find a woman his age who doesn’t have children and he may have to compromise (especially as he continues to get older), but he’s having none of it.

As pp said, we are not that rare:

Of the women who reached age 45 years in 2018, 19% were childless at the end of their childbearing years

Source - ONS:

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/conceptionandfertilityrates/bulletins/childbearingforwomenbornindifferentyearsenglandandwales/2018

I wonder if these people saying it’s a sign of immaturity would say the same about a childless woman. I doubt it.

@Adviceneeded20 I voted YANBU in that I do think it’s rare and preferable but YANBU to have a little whinge about things that annoy you either!

You don’t have to be ok with everything always just because he doesn’t have a crotch goblin floating around!

I've got children but didn't have when I got with DH, he did. Always said if we were to spilt up I'd never date a man with children again. And would probably recommend my kids against it it too tbh

... so in other words, if Queen's friend met 20 women on OLD, statistically around 4 of them would be likely to be childless/childfree.

I sort of agree. Happily married but if I wasnt there is no way I would want to date someone who had kids. It's just not for me.

Personally, I think that for a man to have reached his 40's and never had any DC is a huge red flag.

I think it shows that he is either a man child or a user, and I'd not want either of that type of 'man' .

If he's never been ready to start a family with a partner ( in over 20 years !) by his 40's, then he never will be.

@Monstermissy36

I prefer to stay single but if I was dating I'd not be interested in a man with children unless they were adults. My own children are older and my days of entertaining small children are over! I've also never wanted to have a blended family or have a man move into my home with my kids.

I also understand that may mean I stay single forever and I'm happy with that.

That’s what I said. Then when my son was 23 I met Mr Vinyl, whose kids were 14, 8 and 5. Nobody has ever “got” me like he does and here we are, 22 years later.

I wouldn’t date a man with young children and neither would I blend families. Kids would have to be at least mid teens and I wouldn’t entertain living with someone until all kids are moved out. I’m mid 40’s

@updownroundandround

Personally, I think that for a man to have reached his 40's and never had any DC is a huge red flag.

I think it shows that he is either a man child or a user, and I'd not want either of that type of 'man' .

If he's never been ready to start a family with a partner ( in over 20 years !) by his 40's, then he never will be.

And what about a woman who doesn’t have kids? Is she also a using commitment-phobe?

I don’t know where to begin with all that unnecessary bolding.

What makes someone a ‘man child’ or ‘user’ because he doesn’t have children? Who has he used? Why is knowing what he wants - and what he doesn’t - in any way childish?

@updownroundandround

Personally, I think that for a man to have reached his 40's and never had any DC is a huge red flag.

I think it shows that he is either a man child or a user, and I'd not want either of that type of 'man' .

If he's never been ready to start a family with a partner ( in over 20 years !) by his 40's, then he never will be.

... That depends on whether you have kids and / or want kids with him

A significant minority of both men and women don't want kids

Blended families often aren't so great for the kids, who have no choice in the new partner and step-siblings that they suddenly have to live with

I think to find someone in their 40s without children would be unusual to say the least!

I’m 41, childless and all my close friends are also childless. Maybe you think we’re some sort of rarity because, as a parent, you naturally form friendships with other parents.

@updownroundandround

Personally, I think that for a man to have reached his 40's and never had any DC is a huge red flag.

I think it shows that he is either a man child or a user, and I'd not want either of that type of 'man' .

If he's never been ready to start a family with a partner ( in over 20 years !) by his 40's, then he never will be.

You're entitled to view it personally as a red flag, but this -

I think it shows that he is either a man child or a user

is an awful thing to say.

There are far more men-children and users who amass children with little thought for the consequences, impregnating women then dumping them and moving onto the next one. Usually the sort of man who whines that his 'kids are his life' but actually only sees them about twice a year.

Obviously, NAMALT and there are lots of fantastic, caring fathers out there. But the man-child/user type is far more likely to be a can't-be-arsed-to-put-a-condom-on-his-dick type man who ends up with multiple children by multiple women.

It takes effort not to have children if you are heterosexually active - it's something that requires planning, organisation, self-control and common sense. Not the qualities normally found in a man-child.

@updownroundandround

Personally, I think that for a man to have reached his 40's and never had any DC is a huge red flag.

I think it shows that he is either a man child or a user, and I'd not want either of that type of 'man' .

If he's never been ready to start a family with a partner ( in over 20 years !) by his 40's, then he never will be.

Well bugger me backwards, who knew?

Here's some news for you: Not everyone wants children. Nobody has to have children either, it is optional. I'm glad I didn't want children. It meant I was at liberty to marry for love. My 'holy grail' DH told me I was the HG - he was overjoyed to meet someone who wanted nothing more than a sperm donor and a walking wallet.

No man is the 'holy grail',