Find a man without children is the holy grail.

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One of my closest friends said to me this morning that finding a man without children in your 40s is like finding the holy grail of relationship goals.

I was telling her about little things that niggle me about DP (who is wonderful to be fair) and she said that I’m lucky I’ve found a man with no DC and that i need to make it work because I’ve found the holy grain

Is she right?

YANBU - finding a man with no DC is the holy grail.

YABU - who cares if he has children or not.

But he can always learn "a late night means bad temper" I mean you managed to put the lesson into 6 words that's trivial.

But you cant really get rid of your kids so easily.

I mean from the way people are talking here it's like they're considering the first set of children a man has is a practice run?

If maturity comes from fatherhood then surely all fathers in a happy longterm relationship must be immature, never having had kids before

@SurreyHillsGirl

A man without kids might be more convenient, but also he might have never grown up enough to be a father

What utter, utter bollocks. Any bellend can be a father, I know this as have dated a good number of said bellend fathers.

My DH was child free like me when I met him in my mid forties and yes, I do feel as if I have found the Holy Grail. He feels the same

I know right. It's like people think the ability to ejaculate means you're somehow more mature than anyone else...

It really means nothing. I mean look at all the threads on here about dead beat fathers who do nothing for their kids. Really not an indication of any level of maturity imo.

* We all have baggage. If it’s not an ex, kids, etc, it might be a difficult set of siblings or parents*

My children aren’t “baggage”.
They aren’t an ex
They aren’t a “difficult” relationship

Anyone who regards my children as baggage can piss off!

@updownroundandround

Personally, I think that for a man to have reached his 40's and never had any DC is a huge red flag.

I think it shows that he is either a man child or a user, and I'd not want either of that type of 'man' .

If he's never been ready to start a family with a partner ( in over 20 years !) by his 40's, then he never will be.

I’m 46, female and I don’t have children. I’m neither a child nor a user - and I find your comment enormously offensive.

When I was young, I thought I’d have them, as I got older I realised I wasn’t cut out to be a mum. I think that decision is probably the most mature one I could have made.

I used the term baggage to basically mean ties with exes and drama. I know having children does still link you with exes and those ties can certainly present as baggage but I never intended to imply that children themselves were baggage ♥️

That’s what I said originally I would find it alarming that you haven’t met anybody your whole life at all to start a family with.

I really am puzzled as to why anyone would find this alarming. The most generous interpretation I can come up with is that if you were lucky enough to meet someone you wanted children with at a time in your life you could have them, you don't realise how lucky you are.

Some people just don't meet the right person at the right time, that's life. It's not something that marks someone out as some sort of weirdo you should be alarmed by. I'm far more alarmed that someone lacks the imagination and empathy to realise that life doesn't always work out the way you planned.

Some people just don't meet the right person at the right time, that's life

And for every man or woman that just hasn't meet the right person (and is still childless) there's several who had kids with the wrong person and the kids they had will suffer from it in some way and be potentially scarred.

And for every man or woman that just hasn't meet the right person (and is still childless) there's several who had kids with the wrong person and the kids they had will suffer from it in some way and be potentially scarred

Well bloody said! You only need to read the threads on here to see that’s true. I could have had kids with two men by now. Both of them cold, abusive, joyless and likely to make awful fathers. Couldn’t put a child through that. Don’t see how it’s more “alarming” to choose not to reproduce with unsuitable people than it is to just go ahead anyway with any fertile person to meet some arbitrary age deadline...just so you don’t tick the weirdo/immature/shady box.

Jeezo these replies are deprsssing. I've never wanted kids because it's not for me. Not fussed if the men I am seeing have them or not as I only do casual things so I never meet the kids anyway. Nothing immature about knowing your own mind!

And for every man or woman that just hasn't meet the right person (and is still childless) there's several who had kids with the wrong person and the kids they had will suffer from it in some way and be potentially scarred.

Yes. The thing I find worrying is the number of posts on the relationships board that start 'My DH is a shit father to the children from his two previous failed relationships. I'm now ttc.' Honestly, you're not the one woman who can show him true love and change him. He'll be a shit father to your children as well.

My recent ex had no kids, he was also a sponging narcissist. His last girlfriend died and her mother told him she would still be alive if she'd never met him. And by the end of the relationship I knew exactly what she meant.

The holy grail is decency, which far too uncommon in the male sex. And if you refer to children as 'baggage' you are a not a decent person.

holy grail in deed! Though i met my ex when he was nearly 40 and there was a reason he was single with no children!! Should have left it that way. So really the holy grail is a decent, single man with no children. Could be a red flag but equally could just mean that they took longer doing what they wanted before settling down.

It wouldnt bother me if he had kids or not, would probabaly be more understanding of kids if he had his own so it would actually help, although there are then more personalities with the potential to clash badly as not only to you have to get on but so do the kids and the partner with the kids.

We have a great blended family with my first ex, we all get on great, look after each others kids, share birthdays and christmas together, help each other... it's lovely. My second ex couldnt blend an egg let alone a family, havent seen him or his family in a decade. It takes effort from everyone especially in the early days, but blended families when they are good are like a little community in themselves. It wasnt the way i had intended to raise my kids but it's pretty bloody amazing in it's odd way. I would expect the same with any other partner (though sworn off dating until the kids are grown up!) if they couldnt blend it would be a no whether they had kids or not.

So really the holy grail is a decent, single man with no children

And who doesn’t want any.
And is between the ages of 40-49 so a 39 year old would be dismissed

I agree with the PP's who said that men in their 40' without kids tend to be immature and selfish.
Having said that, my lovely OH who never wanted kids is basically a step dad to my 3 kids. He plays with them and does all sorts of stuff with them that even their dad didnt do.
He does sometimes get overwhelmed by the noise and he'll retreat to the den. At those times i make sure he has his space.

I think given the right circumstances and right guy, yes a man without kids is wonderful but the patient mature ones are a rare find.

There may be hope then for my male colleague. He is single and looking.to.meet someone (without or with children) and somehow had not met anyone. He seems smart, polite, kind, quiet & solvent. Incredibly reserved and can't stand online dating! So they do exist but struggle to connect?

Re being a man being childless in their 40's...

I met my now fiancé when he was 41. He had been married for some time previously. He and his then wife always wanted children very much but sadly she couldn't conceive and was very unlikely to be able to in the future. Rather than split up because of this, they came to an acceptance together and supported each other through. Yes they divorced later on, but it wasn't at all to do with the fact they were childless.

When I met my OH he was honest about this, and said that although he'd always wanted to be a dad, he'd realised that at his age and meeting women in their mid to late thirties it was unlikely to happen. I had two kids of my own and he was fine with that - I didn't want any more.

I then very unexpectedly fell pregnant whilst on the pill (taking it 100% correctly) about 18 months ago. Shocked was not the word! We were just starting to see it as a blessing when sadly I miscarried. However, it made us reevaluate things and now we have a beautiful 3 month-old baby daughter together.

So what I am saying is the circumstances in which he had remained childless made him far more of a decent man to me than if he'd have left his ex-wife simply because she couldn't carry a baby.

@WellIWasInTheNeighbourhoo

My recent ex had no kids, he was also a sponging narcissist. His last girlfriend died and her mother told him she would still be alive if she'd never met him. And by the end of the relationship I knew exactly what she meant.

The holy grail is decency, which far too uncommon in the male sex. And if you refer to children as 'baggage' you are a not a decent person.

hmmm another poster that seems to have met my ex! Mine nearly killed me too. looking back - he was very well versed on what to do and when so was clearly an old hand at it. Took all my money and anything of worth that belonged to me. Even threw our newborn keepsakes in the bin (i found them there). Made our lives hell and turned on my beautiful little boy. Awful person all the way through, yet knew exactly the right way to behave to reel me and other women in!

Children arent baggage - they are part of the package. People who dont want someone with kids is pretty superficial. Turning down a wonderful person because they have created little people is pretty crappy.

Turning down a wonderful person because they have created little people is pretty crappy.

So is turning down a wonderful person because they haven’t.

I genuinely can’t believe people still think that if someone (it’s usually said about men) doesn’t have children then they’re not “grown up”. My husband and I are childfree by choice and he is every bit a grown up.

It’s up there with “you don’t know what real love is until you have a child”!! 🙄

There isn’t any right or wrong, obviously. My DH didn’t have DC in his late 30s when I met him, and we’ve adopted 2 DDs (now 11 and 8) together. So maybe he was my HG?

My DSis’s exH was an abusive arsehole in his 30s with no DC. Her now DH is lovely but had a 9 year old. They’ve also had 3 DC together. So which one was my DSis’s HG? A no brainer really.

Your friend is being silly if she thinks you should stick with your DP just because he’s the HG as he doesn’t have DC.

@Nicknamegoeshere

My DH is similar to yours. I’m the one who was infertile and it became clear that I would never conceive (I produced no eggs in our one and only IVF cycle). My DH could have left me and had a baby with someone else and I wondered whether I should end it myself, as I knew how much he wanted to be a dad. But instead we decided to apply to adopt and, while it’s hard work, neither of us have ever regretted it.

If you ever needed cold, hard proof that being a father doesn’t equate to maturity you just need to spend a week on Mumsnet. Post after post after post from frustrated women talking about their useless, tosser of a partner who isn’t pulling his weight. All night Xbox sessions over fatherhood. Getting pissed with the lads and leaving them at home holding the baby. Doesn’t wash a dish or do laundry. Won’t do any night feeds. Sleeps in the spare room so he’s not disturbed.

If that’s what ya’ll mean by “grown up” I’d rather shoot myself in the flaps with a BB gun!

@Mittens030869 Aw that's amazing. A friend of mine adopted twin boys with her husband and they are gorgeous - they were 9 months when they arrived and now they are two and thriving 😊

@Nicknamegoeshere That's lovely too. Adoption is challenging, but definitely worth it. My DD1 is 11 and has just started secondary school and DD2 is 8 and in year 4. They're also full siblings.

The last two posts are lovely, by best friend is going through the adoption process and is beginning to feel the fear a little.