Find a man without children is the holy grail.

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One of my closest friends said to me this morning that finding a man without children in your 40s is like finding the holy grail of relationship goals.

I was telling her about little things that niggle me about DP (who is wonderful to be fair) and she said that I’m lucky I’ve found a man with no DC and that i need to make it work because I’ve found the holy grain

Is she right?

YANBU - finding a man with no DC is the holy grail.

YABU - who cares if he has children or not.

I'm a single parent and wouldn't want a relationship with someone without kids, or even with grown up kids. I need someone with as little spare time as me, otherwise I expect they'd get quite pissed off with barely seeing me.

If I was single and dating again I wouldn’t touch a man with children with a bargepole. Maybe it would be OK if they were adults. Of course if many men felt the same I’d be single forever as I have two!

@SerenDippitty

I thought the OP was simply saying that her friend thinks it's much harder to meet men without children after a certain age if that's what you are looking for. Not suggesting that people with children are defective or damaged. But there have been plenty of suggestions that there must be something wrong with men who have not achieved fatherhood by a certain age.

These comments seem to be getting catty.

There’s pros and cons to both.

We all once upon a time “thought XYZ” truth is life doesn’t always work out like that unfortunately.

Single mum with DC meets Divorced Dad.
Divorced Dad still has soft spot for ExMrsDad.
Divorced Dad is Disney Dad to his DC.
Your DC see DSC being treated differently.

Single Mum meets single NotDad. NotDad likes kids and wants one of his own.

Holy grail?

LOL I'd FAR rather date a man with kids as I have them too.
I imagine a guy with no kids would struggle to accept that my kids come first and he comes second. A guy who was already a dad should get that so we would be more well matched in our views.

@EleanorOalike

ALARMING? It’s alarming not to have children now? For heavens sake, how awful is that attitude towards the childless/child free?

Why are you taking things out of context. There’s no need at all.

As a mum I gave my view (in my own opinion). I also stated there’s pros and cons to both.

See the bigger picture.

Unlike many on MN I'm not suspicious of people in their 40s who haven't been married or don't have children - sometimes things don't happen within the timeline that society sets.

But it's your friends choice to only date men without children, so she has to accept that the dating pool will be smaller.

You are also allowed to complain about things that your DP does that annoy you. Just because he doesn't have kids doesn't mean he gets away with poor behaviour.

*Why are you taking things out of context. There’s no need at all.

As a mum I gave my view (in my own opinion). I also stated there’s pros and cons to both.

See the bigger picture.*

Because in the context you used it alarming is just horrible. A person in their 40s doesn’t have children and that somehow suggests danger? Cause for concern? It’s worrying?
That’s what alarming means. Your post seemed to suggest that childless over 40s automatically present some sort of risk.

Voted YABU but I'm somewhere in between... children are definitely not a dealbreaker for me but I'd be put off by:
a) someone who has children but doesn't see/support them
b) an insane ex who still has a lot of contact
c) children who are horrible brats
d) child access arrangements that don't leave room for a relationship (e.g. I ended things with one guy because he had a preschool-aged child who lived in another European country and flew over there every weekend to see her - I thought that was admirable but I want a partner who is around on the weekends as I work long hours during the week)

On the other hand, I love kids and wouldn't want to be with someone who doesn't like them. And if I meet a man in his 40s who hasn't had children I do wonder why... most nice/eligible guys will have had the opportunity, and there's no real downside to having children for men like there is for women (health risks, impact on career etc).

But a man over 40 with kids will surely have older kids (ie not toddlers) and perhaps even adult kids.

Most people do have children - fact

So straight away she’s made her ‘pool’ a lot smaller.

It’s also not just about her liking him - he has to like her.

Having kids in general makes most people less selfish. Someone that’s never had kids (your friend) will have never had to consider/put someone’s needs above their own regularly.

She sounds a bit delusional. A good father could be a good husband. Someone that doesn’t want kids could be perceived as more selfish. Not necessarily for not wanting kids, but for never having to put other needs above their own. All they’ll know is what they want, what’s best for them and their life.

YANBU.

Single men without children hardly exist and if they do there's usually some reason why they never found someone to stick with, or they wanted kids with.

Men with kids are somebody's ex, these I would not touch with a barge pole as ex's for a reason.
Always baffles me why women go for these men then wonder why they aren't any good. It's always the ex wife fault, according to these men.

Totally depends on what you want I suppose.
Does this man in his 40s without children want them in his future??

I am not planning on having any more children....so would automatically rule out any man without children who wants some of his own.

@TableFlowerss

But a man over 40 with kids will surely have older kids (ie not toddlers) and perhaps even adult kids.

Most people do have children - fact

So straight away she’s made her ‘pool’ a lot smaller.

It’s also not just about her liking him - he has to like her.

Having kids in general makes most people less selfish. Someone that’s never had kids (your friend) will have never had to consider/put someone’s needs above their own regularly.

She sounds a bit delusional. A good father could be a good husband. Someone that doesn’t want kids could be perceived as more selfish. Not necessarily for not wanting kids, but for never having to put other needs above their own. All they’ll know is what they want, what’s best for them and their life.

Really? Because I'm 50 with a 5 yo and a 3 month granddaughter. More and more people are waiting until their 3Os to jave children. Also having children is the most selfish thing a person can do. Its not selfless to have children

She can have my ex boyfriends. Both 40's and without children. Both massively selfish and immature arses (found out too late). I now know men over 40 without kids or prior marriages are generally a walking red flag.

Personally, I think that for a man to have reached his 40's and never had any DC is a huge red flag.

Some of the attitudes here to the childfree are mind-blowing.

DH is a man in his 40s, and he's never had children because we decided together not to have them. He's also a perfectly functional adult and not remotely immature or selfish.

The insane ex.
If there is contact, she'll be insane because she split up with him.
If there is no contact, she'll have 'made up' a pack of lies about him, something like he was violent or used drugs.

In the second case, I'd make checks and be wary.

Having kids in general makes most people less selfish. Someone that’s never had kids (your friend) will have never had to consider/put someone’s needs above their own regularly.

That is complete crap. My childless DH somehow managed to put my needs first when I became long-term ill. It's not just children - life happens in a lot of ways. Illness, aging parents, the usual ebbs and flows.

40% of degree-educated women in the UK never have children, it''s not that unusual.

Having kids in general makes most people less selfish. Someone that’s never had kids (your friend) will have never had to consider/put someone’s needs above their own regularly.

It makes them myfamilyish instead.

When friends start to breed their circle of friends grows, and they have less in common with friends with no children.

"there's no real downside to having children for men like there is for women (health risks, impact on career etc)"

So they should just have them anyway because... just because? Never mind the potential impact on the children of having a distant, disinterested (if not just completely absent) father who never actually wanted them to start with. Yes, I can see how that's not selfish. 🙄

I think everyone is entitled to have preferences. I can totally understand her point of view. There are single men around who haven't got children, I suppose they are in the minority though just as childfree women are. I have a friend who married a childfree man in his 40s, she has children. She was delighted and described him as having no baggage.

The only single, child free guy I know in his 40's is my brother , and that's mainly because he works 6 days a week and on Sunday he plays golf.

Really? Because I'm 50 with a 5 yo and a 3 month granddaughter. More and more people are waiting until their 3Os to jave children. Also having children is the most selfish thing a person can do. Its not selfless to have children

@Leaannb

No idea if you’re a man or a woman but having a child at 45 isn’t the norm. It’s not wrong, it’s perfectly fair enough, nevertheless, not the norm. (I also did specifically say toddlers)

Well I think we’ll have to agree to disagree on your second point. I can’t see where you’re coming from tbh. A man that doesn’t want children is presumably because he doesn’t want to be tied down and put someone’s needs above his own etc... it’s his choice and if that’s what he’s decided that’s fair enough.

Can’t see how that creates a selfless person (pretty sure they haven’t decided they don’t want children because of overpopulation and to save the planet....!)

@MaxNormal

Having kids in general makes most people less selfish. Someone that’s never had kids (your friend) will have never had to consider/put someone’s needs above their own regularly.

That is complete crap. My childless DH somehow managed to put my needs first when I became long-term ill. It's not just children - life happens in a lot of ways. Illness, aging parents, the usual ebbs and flows.

40% of degree-educated women in the UK never have children, it''s not that unusual.

Well i didn’t say everyone and I didn’t say all the time. I said in general!