Find a man without children is the holy grail.

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One of my closest friends said to me this morning that finding a man without children in your 40s is like finding the holy grail of relationship goals.

I was telling her about little things that niggle me about DP (who is wonderful to be fair) and she said that I’m lucky I’ve found a man with no DC and that i need to make it work because I’ve found the holy grain

Is she right?

YANBU - finding a man with no DC is the holy grail.

YABU - who cares if he has children or not.

Interesting! The men I know in their 40s with no kids are definitely not good boyfriend material, there are reasons why they haven't settled down yet. Obviously that doesn't apply to everyone!

@DeeTractor

So women not wanting children = sensible, understandable decision Men not wanting children = immature commitmentphobe weirdos

MN double standards at it's best.

Yep! I do an outdoor sport where it's not uncommon to meet men who don't have kids. I'm not interested in any as a boyfriend, but they're not bad material as long as you are someone who also does not want kids, are too old for them or have adult children.

My OH is in his late 40's and doesn't have children. He's been very open about the fact that he doesn't like small children. He met my DD when she was 9 and they are very close now. I only ever wanted 1 child so him not wanting any of his own suits me just fine.

I was doing well as a potential Holy Grail until someone a few posts back mentioned long term relationships. As I've never had any kind of personal relationship with anyone (I'm either very unlucky or very unpopular) I guess that's the golden dealbreaker.

Fascinating thread nevertheless.

I don't have children, but somehow I manage to deal with all the childish bullying that the mother of my DH's children throws at me in quite a mature way. Who'd have thought it.

Likewise, I don't have children but can deal with the really odd toddler temper tantrums my OH's ex throws. Plus I can actually feed her child, and not leave her in a sobbing, distraught mess. Being a biological mother doesn't make you good at it. Being child-free does not make you immature.

Men with kids are somebody's ex, these I would not touch with a barge pole as ex's for a reason.
Always baffles me why women go for these men then wonder why they aren't any good. It's always the ex wife fault, according to these men

Hmm. I'm various men's ex girlfriend. Fortunately this didn't put my OH off when he met me. I guess that, like me, he can see that sometimes relationships don't work out in the long term because you grow apart and stop being compatible, and don't necessarily mean you're doomed as a human being.

Can’t see how that creates a selfless person (pretty sure they haven’t decided they don’t want children because of overpopulation and to save the planet....!)

I'm not sure why you think this. For me overpopulation was one factor in the decision. I also felt that I wasn't equipped to provide properly at the time. My brother is also child-free and again for him, environmental concerns were a part of it.

[quote MaxNormal]@Goatinthegarden very similar scenario to us.
I honestly think some people have lurid imaginations and have conjured up some sort of international playboy cliche to represent childless men to themselves.[/quote]
I love the automatic assumption that there is something very wrong with those of us that choose not to have children.

I listen to everyone at work moan about sleepless nights and weekends spent watching kids play football matches in the rain and wonder why I should be desperate to join in...

I don’t know many in fact any men 40
Plus that don’t have children so they must be hard to

@Decentsalnotime

If I keeled over and died tomorrow, he would make a wonderful partner for someone else.
To single mother of three children under the ages of 8?

I can’t imagine him choosing to date someone with three kids, but if he fell for someone who happened to have children, I’m sure he’d do a better job than some of the dads the kids in my class have.

He certainly has the patience and moral compass that he would make the most of the situation and do what he could to raise those children. He would be interested in them and their learning. He works hard and is selfless with his time and money so I’m sure he would provide well for any stepchildren. I’m basing this on how he treats all of our nieces and nephews. He also helps to make, find and buy things for my classroom and for the children’s charity that I volunteer for.

You can choose not to have children and still be a competent human being.

Gosh, what a can of worms......

I was a single mother of a toddler when I met my ex DH and we were married for 14 years before his utter twattishness ended things. Don't shoot me, but when I met him in my late 20s he was so very lovely to me and helped me sort out my life after a huge amount of trauma and he was a great SD to my DS........ and the huge red flag that he had three ex wives and five daughters (yep, I was completely naive) didn't bother me - the older girls loved out of area (and it was all very complicated) and the two younger became a part of our lives - when they were in their exam years their Mum moved to be with her new partner so they moved in with us to complete their education. So I've done the blended family thing and yes, it was challenging and complicated. But it was just our lives, we made it mainly work. Ex DH was in turn a great father and a shit one, depending.

New DP I met at 42, he was the same age. My DS was still living with exDH as he made that choice so I was now essentially child free to an extent. DP had never had kids but had been married and had a couple of LTRs. He had never wanted children - was absolutely upfront about his fear he'd make a terrible father because he wanted a spontaneous lifestyle. He's been mainly great with DS who has lived independently and with us at various times, but he didn't have to parent him as such. I respect his outlook and give him kudos for not being rail-roaded into anything that would have lead to potential kids feeling in any way not his priority.

When we got together I lost count of the number of people who asked if we were going to have offspring - which would leave us both reacting in mock horror. Having my DS is wonderful, but repeating the process all over again at 42 just did not appeal.

I guess what I'm saying is horses for courses. I wasn't looking for any man - the one I ended up with was a wonderful bonus. I think if I'd met someone with children who was "ideal" I would have been open to making it work, but having dealt with all my exDH's "baggage" it would have been a slow and carefully negotiated process because I do think children take priority in these situations.

I've never been a planner as such, because life has often stuck two fingers up at my attempts so I try to adapt to the moment.

I've learned alot through my life, and the biggest lesson is that while it's great to have a broad idea of what might be ideal, if one isn't somewhat flexible, you can miss out on things that actually are quite positive and enriching.

Oh, and everyone is different - generalising is one of the biggest mistakes in my opinion.

I can understand her about not dating men without dc as she doesn't have any herself but you may come across single mums who won't date men with dc, this grinds my gears ⚙️ 😡

Fuckairbnb

You sound well.matched.

You're selfish and he's a shit dad

If a man came on here and insisted he should be placed above his girlfriend's children he'd be ripped apart.

I never really knew how awful and horrible so many women are until I discovered mumsnet. No wonder so many women are single.

@Batshitbeautycosmeticsltd

Please can I ask what the hobby is?

Your friend sounds sensible to me, OP. Neither OH nor I have kids. If I was single, I would only consider dating childfree men. I’d rather be single than have to deal with kids that have nothing to do with me.

Having dated someone with kids ( I was never married, no kids) I say they were right. I did meet someone later, never married or kids and we have been married 20 years and do have our own ds. If I hadn’t met dh I would not have dated another man with kids. Just being honest.

Lastly I also think it can be slightly alarming that a man in their 40s has no children at all (unless they just didn’t want them or couldn’t have them). Pros and cons to both

Sorry but this has made me lol. Given that you have excluded men who choose not to have children and those who can't have them, what reason for not having children would be alarming ?. The only other reason I can think of is that they might have no children is that they did but the child died . That is more sad than alarming

I assume what you mean is men who might want children but haven't found the person they want to have children with yet. I suppose that night be alarming . It is also a double standard unless you think the same about women in that category.

I still don't understand the attitude that a man with kids is better than a man without them. The only exception being that they are more understanding of a single mum's situation. When my ex h got with a woman with several dcs I thought "Great, she will be understanding and make a good step parent (if that's the correct term) for my dcs." How wrong could I be! She is vile. Her dcs come first and my ex agreed with her. My dcs could not stay if her dcs were at their dads. They have different dad's so of course at any one time one of them could be with their father. If all her dcs are there then my dcs can't stay as 'there isn't any room.' If my dcs didn't do exactly as her dcs wanted then my ex would be on the phone saying my dc are out of order as her dc are never wrong. Absolute nightmare.

I prefer men who are family-minded so would be put off by a man who'd had the opportunity to have kids and chosen not to. I can more easily understand women not wanting to have children because of the risks and sacrifices involved

This doesn't make sense. A man can't have children without a woman - so (in your view) whenever a man fathers children he is exposing a woman to 'risks and sacrifices'.

You are therefore saying that a man who is happy to expose a woman to 'risks and sacrifices' because he wants children would make a better partner than a man who doesn't want to expose his partner to the 'risks and sacrifices' of having children.

I assume what you mean is men who might want children but haven't found the person they want to have children with yet. I suppose that night be alarming . It is also a double standard unless you think the same about women in that category.

Yes it’s a massive double standard. No one would dare say that a 40 year old woman must have something wrong with her if she is single and childless, yet many have said it about men here.

@AltheaVestr1t

Interesting! The men I know in their 40s with no kids are definitely not good boyfriend material, there are reasons why they haven't settled down yet. Obviously that doesn't apply to everyone!

Why is 'settling down' seen as a universally desirable goal in life?

Plus, you only have to read the 'relationships' forum to realise that 'settling down' doesn't automatically make you into a responsible, mature adult. Plenty of men walk out on their children.

I think people think like this because of ex wives tbh

Ex h arent a problem in same way

@bumblingbovine49 I don’t see it as double standards. Women produce the children so even if they think they don’t want a child they. Can fall Pregnant by mistake. Where as a man doesn’t run that risk once he may have decided not to have children.

Everything comes with a stigma. It’s like a perception of single mothers & men not wanting to take on the responsibility (sometimes).

From what I read on here a lot of women seem to get caught up in maintaining and furthering their career and forget that while they still feel young their body clock is against them and them when trying to conceive it doesn’t always happen the way they had hoped.

** assume what you mean is men who might want children but haven't found the person they want to have children with yet. I suppose that night be alarming

That’s what I said originally I would find it alarming that you haven’t met anybody your whole life at all to start a family with.

Yes it would make me a little worried! I don’t find it amusing at all.

It’s my opinion you don’t have to agree.

Opinions are like arseholes.

We all have them but yours stinks.

From what I read on here a lot of women seem to get caught up in maintaining and furthering their career and forget that while they still feel young their body clock is against them and them when trying to conceive it doesn’t always happen the way they had hoped.

They don't 'forget' this. They are just responsible enough not to have children without a suitable partner and/or financial stability.

Women are very well aware that they have a limited time window in which to have children.