Find a man without children is the holy grail.

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One of my closest friends said to me this morning that finding a man without children in your 40s is like finding the holy grail of relationship goals.

I was telling her about little things that niggle me about DP (who is wonderful to be fair) and she said that I’m lucky I’ve found a man with no DC and that i need to make it work because I’ve found the holy grain

Is she right?

YANBU - finding a man with no DC is the holy grail.

YABU - who cares if he has children or not.

@Neversayn1

** assume what you mean is men who might want children but haven't found the person they want to have children with yet. I suppose that night be alarming

That’s what I said originally I would find it alarming that you haven’t met anybody your whole life at all to start a family with.

Yes it would make me a little worried! I don’t find it amusing at all.

Aren’t men allowed to be choosy?

@SerenDippitty everyone is entitled to choose what they want. To be honest I was not complaining about their life choice.

I just said that I would find it a little iffy. Not the fact they don’t want children I understand not everyone wants them.

But someone saying ohhh I haven’t had the opportunity. There’s a difference.

@IcedPurple no not really. Because theres lots of stories on here of happily married women. And their stories state otherwise I don’t think they literally forget but maybe the correct word is complacent. I read it a lot.

there are reasons why they haven't settled down yet

Why do you think 'settled down' = had children?

I've been married for 15 years, without children - does that mean my husband hasn't 'settled down' yet?

Conversely I can think of numerous couples with children who've split up within a couple of years of the DC being born.

[quote Neversayn1]@IcedPurple no not really. Because theres lots of stories on here of happily married women. And their stories state otherwise I don’t think they literally forget but maybe the correct word is complacent. I read it a lot.[/quote]
This reply makes very little sense.

[quote Neversayn1]@SerenDippitty everyone is entitled to choose what they want. To be honest I was not complaining about their life choice.

I just said that I would find it a little iffy. Not the fact they don’t want children I understand not everyone wants them.

But someone saying ohhh I haven’t had the opportunity. There’s a difference.[/quote]
Most responsible men don’t tend to prioritise having children over finding the right person to have them with.

@Pelleas

there are reasons why they haven't settled down yet

Why do you think 'settled down' = had children?

I've been married for 15 years, without children - does that mean my husband hasn't 'settled down' yet?

Conversely I can think of numerous couples with children who've split up within a couple of years of the DC being born.

It’s not a competition is it? If you don’t have any children you won’t understand how I would feel would you? As a mother and then to meet a man who said he has not had the opportunity to have children yet it would not sit well with me. If he said I simply do not want children that is different!!

The last part is true what you have wrote.

If you don’t have any children you won’t understand how I would feel would you?

I wouldn't claim to understand how anyone feels - we are all different - as I said earlier, everyone is entitled to choose their own criteria for potential partners.

I just think some of the posts on this thread (and by no means only yours) come across as very judgemental towards those men who haven't had children. There's a stereotype being promoted that a childless man of 40+ must be immature, irresponsible, unwilling to commit or settle down. That's simply not true.

In my experience, men who have made a conscious decision not to have children and have stuck to it - not thrown caution to the wind when their partner's forgotten to take the Pill and they're out of condoms, or given in to pressure from their mum who's desperate to be a granny, or been led by their dick to shag a woman who is looking for a sperm-donor - tend to be extremely responsible and sensible.

"
In my experience, men who have made a conscious decision not to have children and have stuck to it - not thrown caution to the wind when their partner's forgotten to take the Pill and they're out of condoms, or given in to pressure from their mum who's desperate to be a granny, or been led by their dick to shag a woman who is looking for a sperm-donor - tend to be extremely responsible and sensible."

This. It takes no talent, skill, maturity, intelligence, or forethought for a man to empty his load into some willing recipient and then shrug it off with "I thought she was on the pill". I would be far, far more put off by someone with a gaggle of children by different women than a man with none.

I have my first two online dates This week. Both seem really nice men, both lovely interesting and thoughtful in messaging, both very successful professionally, both have been completely been flexible to work around fact that I’ve needed to be very specific about time we meet for coffee to work around my children.

One has children (45). Primary aged, same as mine.
The other (49) doesn’t.

I have a real affinity for the latter. He’s made me laugh, we have discussed books and films that we both have enjoyed, he has lots of lovely pics of him with nieces and nephews etc.

BUT I will be finding out very quickly why he doesn’t have children.
Down to career - fine
Infertility - fine
Actively didn’t want children -NOT FINE

I am simply not building a relationship with someone that didn’t want to have children. Why? I don’t want my children to potentially have to live with someone who didn’t want children and therefore is unlikely to really want them!

Being child free is the holy grail of life in general

I love children, I have 2 of my own, I have 13 nieces and nephews and 10 great nieces and nephews, I have worked in a professional capacity with children for over 40yrs. I would never, and have never, dated a man who has children.

There are some very crass statements on this thread about single, childless men. There is nothing wrong with anyone, male or female who have decided they don't want children, there are lots who can't have any or have made an active decision not to.

It doesn't make them selfish unless they are already selfish
It doesn't make them childish unless they are already childish
It doesn't make them afraid of commitment unless they already are
It doesn't mean they haven't already had LTRs

It doesn't actually mean anything at all except they have decided they don't want (or if they can't have) children.

There are plenty of childish, selfish, man child, stupid parents, you only have to read this board everyday to see that.

@GreyGardens88

Being child free is the holy grail of life in general

@Pelleas this is a topic that we can all hold our own views. It seems my view doesn’t sit well with you so you and some other posters have choose to point score and then turn around and slag with who may have children and it has not worked out.

You and some posters are right though it doesn’t always go to plan it’s complex but I tell you something I would not be without my child though.

@nokidshere

I love children, I have 2 of my own, I have 13 nieces and nephews and 10 great nieces and nephews, I have worked in a professional capacity with children for over 40yrs. I would never, and have never, dated a man who has children.

There are some very crass statements on this thread about single, childless men. There is nothing wrong with anyone, male or female who have decided they don't want children, there are lots who can't have any or have made an active decision not to.

It doesn't make them selfish unless they are already selfish
It doesn't make them childish unless they are already childish
It doesn't make them afraid of commitment unless they already are
It doesn't mean they haven't already had LTRs

It doesn't actually mean anything at all except they have decided they don't want (or if they can't have) children.

There are plenty of childish, selfish, man child, stupid parents, you only have to read this board everyday to see that.

So why do you not want to date a man with children just out of interest?

I am simply not building a relationship with someone that didn’t want to have children. Why? I don’t want my children to potentially have to live with someone who didn’t want children and therefore is unlikely to really want them!

Surely so much depends on the individual though? Just because someone has children of his own doesn't mean he wants to live with yours. A man whose children were already grown-up, for example, might not be best pleased to be helping to bring up young children all over again.

Surely this is something you'd need to frankly discuss with a potential partner, rather than dismissing whole groups of men based on an assumption?

A man without kids might be more convenient, but also he might have never grown up enough to be a father. Or he might want children but circumstances mean it's not happened, or he might be so caught up with work or hobbies that's he's not got time for children or a relationship

That's an awful lot of assumptions about someone who might just not want kids. I don't and have never wanted children and this is a prime example of the verbal diarrhoea that people spew because they just can't grasp the fact the some people don't want children.

I dated in my 40's and would not consider a man who had kids, why would I when I don't want any myself. Yes it's difficult, but they do exist. I found mine on Tinder. And reader, I married him.

Rr children there’s not many “categories”

You have listed another one. Someone you has had children but doesn’t want to be involved with someone with dependent children. Fair enough. Feeling would be mutual!

I am simply not building a relationship with someone that didn’t want to have children. Why? I don’t want my children to potentially have to live with someone who didn’t want children and therefore is unlikely to really want them

That's a fair enough stance. Why should your children be put in that situation.

However, the truth is, men (and women) who truely do not want children look for someone who also does not want children - so the man in that situation wouldn't want to be in a relationship with you anyway.

And reader, I married him.

I married mine too. Fifteen years ago after meeting at an office party. Our views on children were just one of the many areas in which we gelled.

Of course we then ended up inheriting two stroppy teenagers and have gone on to adopt them - but there's a massive difference between that and having our own biological children. That we didn't, don't and will never want.

Is it that men who are in their 40s who have never had children aren’t really looking for women in their 40s but are looking at women in their late 20s or 30s to have children with and your friend is just too old for them.

I think your friend should maybe spread her age preference wider to someone who might be in their 50s or 60s with maybe grown up children.

If she talks of finding the Holy Grail then her criteria is too restrictive.

She has every right not to compromise but equally she might be dismissing a lot of guys just because of their date of birth

I disagree with Oliversmummy would you advise a 40 year old childfree man to date much older women to ensure he found a like minded partner?
In reality I think a lot of men just go along with their oh and agree to have children. There are also those dimwits who don't use contraception.
In my close circles 0f 4. 2 of us told their dh that they would not be having children, end off. The men were happy to go along with this. One married a younger man and had more children with him, he was childfree. The other married a man with children and they didn't have any more dc together.

Doesn't it depend on the man? Some men like to date women much younger than them because of the obvious reasons I guess and then see the possibility of that becoming a father without being really interested in it as a natural consequence of being able to be with the young, beautiful and pert woman.

Same as some women go for men that they aren't particularly bothered about because they will make a good father and their time is running out. The ultimate in settling I guess.

Im not convinced that people in either of these situations are making the mature and responsible choices that a man or woman who do not want children and are proactive about ensuring they do not make a child do.

No more awful than suggesting someone without kids is the "holy grail" perhaps? as if people with kids are defective/damaged in some way?

They’re not defective/damaged, but they do come with a lot of baggage, including an ex who will always be there in the background making demands and having some sort of control and influence over your life. In my opinion this is worse when dating a man with children because usually the mum/ex is the rp and therefore has more power over you because they’re more “in charge”. I couldn’t be doing with any of that. I’m in charge of my own life and I don’t want another woman thinking she’s my boss or the boss of my children’s lives. I know not all women are like that, but Mumsnet doesn’t fill me with very much confidence after seeing the many threads on here over the years stating what they think stepmums should or shouldn’t be doing. Apparently stepmums should be topping up maintenance Yeah like I would willingly bring all that nonsense in to my life!

@Oliversmumsarmy

Is it that men who are in their 40s who have never had children aren’t really looking for women in their 40s but are looking at women in their late 20s or 30s to have children with and your friend is just too old for them.

I think your friend should maybe spread her age preference wider to someone who might be in their 50s or 60s with maybe grown up children.

If she talks of finding the Holy Grail then her criteria is too restrictive.

She has every right not to compromise but equally she might be dismissing a lot of guys just because of their date of birth

Some men in their 40s might be looking for younger women to have children with. On the other hand, men that age who genuinely do not want children might prefer women in their 40s as it's unlikely they're ever going to have children, so they don't have to worry about that becoming an issue 5 years down the line.

And age isn't simply about a date on a birth certificate. As another poster asked, would you recommend that a childfree man in his 40s date women 2 decades older just so he can be sure he won't be stuck with her children?