To just bring a small child to a nice place to eat?

[FairyAndLavender]

Im probably going to get a bashing for this...

I take DS out to eat a lot and he's okay, but they're only generic places that are clearly family friendly.

DS is 3 soon but has ASD and he makes a lot of loud sharp intakes of breath to self regulate.

He can be a bit tricky to keep still sometimes but I'd NEVER allow any getting down!

Anyway, it's my grandmother's birthday soon and I've booked a fancy tapas place in Covent Garden, the website says it is small and intimate so shouldn't be too many people there anyway.

AIBU to bring DS knowing there's a chance he could really annoy people?

Ds had a set of the odd bods, some magnetic shapes that clicked together, oil and water drippy timers, and he is allowed to watch a video on my phone with the sound off, in between ordering and eating, and while we drink coffee

No no no no not on MN. No screens at the table wtf are you thinking.

You either all sit in.silence and as still as the human body is capable of, or you occupy then with crayons also in silence or they read a copy of war and peace.

Course the ones who moan a kid made any noise or got up also seem to be the same ones who moan that they arent occupied the right way

In the real world however when the food is taking a bit long and the biro in your bag ran out its really not the end of the world if they watch peppa pig on YouTube fir 5 mins

We take our 2 DC out for meals all the time. But we paused for a while when DC1 was probably 10-24 months when they became too annoying, and will probably do the same with DC2.

But we don’t take them to small, intimate places. You need big and bustling to mask the noise of kids (and there will be some noise from what you’ve said).

If there’s a few of you and it’s a celebration can you book a private dining room somewhere? I did that for a family celebration earlier this year for the very reason that we had small children there and I didn’t want to worry about them making noise.

@WombatChocolate

'Children are people too and have as much right to socialise in public places as anyone else'

No. Small children are not in a position to make choices like this for themselves and their parents need to make those choices for them.

None of us are islands but part of wider society and this is very evident when eating out. All of us need to consider both our own wants and desires and also consider those of others when we are in public places.

Just because we want to or would like to do something or go somewhere, even if we are able to go there, we should always consider if the environment will actually promote enjoyment for us or if our presence will impact that of others. Those who only consider themselves and what they want with zero consideration for anyone else is being selfish and entitled.

Regarding children.....they are exactly that. Some activities and places and locations are more suited to older or younger children or adults. There will often be grey areas, but certainly places which are not suitable for the very young (or do people want to argue that small children have right to go to nightclubs in exactly the same way as adults) and parents have to make choices and decisions about where they go, considerimg both what works for them and their family, but also with thought to others too.

So, why people would take a 2 year old to a restuarant which takes 3 hours to serve a full meal, in a setting which is small, intimate, expensive and tightly packed quiet environment is beyond me. Really.....does the 2 year old enjoy it and over 3 hours, are all those there for their special treat meal of the year going to be positively impacted by the child presence?

Exactly this. Brilliantly put.

I can’t bare people who are not kind or tolerant of children in any setting or circumstance. We were all young once.

I think it depends what your family are like with DS. If people are happy for him to eat quickly then take it in turns pottering round outside with him then it'll be fine. If it'll be just you having to entertain him it'll probably be miserable for both of you. Any chance he still naps and you could get him to sleep in a buggy for a bit of the meal? Btw I think later dinner is a bit of a no no but lunch with kids is fine.

Just because we want to or would like to do something or go somewhere, even if we are able to go there, we should always consider if the environment will actually promote enjoyment for us or if our presence will impact that of others. Those who only consider themselves and what they want with zero consideration for anyone else is being selfish and entitled

Doesn't that work both ways? I've been out for dinner on very rare evenings with friends because I am at wits end with caring for a child with additional needs constantly. I've seen babies out a few times at the same time. Do you think I had the right to be so annoyed at the sound of crying, or should I had done what i did and try to block it out, with a sympathetic glance at a struggle parent if they keep looking so sorry about the noise?

I have a friend with a teenager who has a condition where a machine makes a lot of noise. Should she too hide away because it's not pleasant for those who want a perfectly quiet meal?

I don't really get the whole issue anyway. If someone is looking after a nightmare child I only ever remember thanking the Gods it wasn't me dealing with it all Relief!

The ops son is a human being, you can take him where you want as long as children aren’t banned. In my culture people are horrified by this attitude.

Some adults can be seriously annoying also. I remember being at a childfree wedding sitting next to a 30 something year old woman who was absolutely plastered and kept telling me all about her traveling in very non touristy places while spitting food in my face.... There was a babe in arms next to me (they were very graciously allowed) and I know who I preferred being next to...

Or when I got on a flight and the woman asked to be moved as I had a baby only to be sat beside some delightful men on a stag weekend. Laughing away to myself with my sleeping baby seeing her from my seat as she was asked to move for the millionth time by the v v loud man going to the bathroom (copious amounts of alcohol will do that do ya..)

Tricky one. I'd have no problem with a reasonably well-behaved child at the table next to me. Unlike the 5 children in a restaurant a few years ago who were seated at a table away from the adults and ran screaming around the place all through lunch.

My hesitation is your description of the place as 'intimate' and dark. This means it is also probably going to be quiet with a lot of couples. Who won't appreciate a noisy young child at the table next to them. If he gets shushed a lot by strangers, will he find this upsetting? Will you?

For financial reasons i mainly take DC to family friendly chain restaurants. Recently (eat out to help out) I thought I would take them somewhere a bit fancier. They felt quite nervous and unsure of themselves but did end up enjoying it. Especially as staff were very welcoming. I think I will try to do it again when we can so they feel more confident.

Like I think others have said that my DC respond to the environment. Some chain places - Carluccios and Pizza Express spring to mind - always feel a bit bright, hectic, crammed in and loud. My DC always seem to be a bit more hyper there. Much more chance of a drink spillage! Small and dimmed lights likely to be better.

OP please don't worry about your son's noises. Its sad to think anyone would mind. I hope you have a lovely time. I love tapas.

My post doesn't make sense in parts - sorry!

From looking at the restaurant on Instagram, I think it might be too ‘busy’ for any three year old and would pick somewhere else. Also for your Grandmother’s comfort as well as your DS’s - the seating seems to be stools/benches which might be uncomfortable for both of them.

I don't even know where all these quiet fine dining restaurants are, they must be very much in the minority, I've eaten in one or two like that in France, with my children but we coped just fine.

In the UK, there aren't many places that are quiet. Restaurants are full of adults who are loud, from pairs of women chatting animatedly, work colleagues out for a few drinks then eating, right up to hen parties. If you go to a tapas bar, it will not be quiet! Tapas bars are usually quite fun places.

These super-quiet restaurants are mythical, like the super-quiet planes everyone goes on where the only one making a noise is small children. In reality, adults are loud, adults are often quite rude (especially on planes, I've noticed), it's just no-one glares at middle-aged men roaring with laughter at a City restaurant, strangely, as they don't usually want to pick fights with them whereas glaring and glancing at mums out with their children is much more fun.

Noooooooo

A loud and crouded place? Yes
A quiet and intimate place ? No
I loathe people who bring their toddlers in nice places. People come there tohave a good time. A nice time. A relaxing time. Not to be annoyed by some loud and annoying toddler... (not justmeaning your kid op. ANY toddler.) As sitting still and behaving themselves for 1.5hr is a toddles cryptonite 😂

I never said it was a party. Just a meal I have booked for her, myself and my son as a little day out to Covent Garden

@FairyAndLavender Yes but my point is the same. Ask your Gran. No idea how old she is- she could be 50 or 85- but looking at the restaurant online, it's all bar stools so not the comfiest place for an older person (if she is) and definitely not IMO suitable for a toddler.

Why not leave your child at home and take her out for a lovely tea somewhere like Browns or a lovely hotel?

We tend to choose parts of London that we know will be dead on the weekend, eg the city or Canary Wharf. W small DCs and a MIL with hearing loss it works well.

I voted YABU because I thought his sharp intakes of breath were because he’d be overwhelmed.

But if it’s not, and HE will be comfortable then go for it!

My sister's daughter has quite severe autism, and her behaviour can be challenging. But she is very very good at restaurants and has always been taken out, including quite exclusive ones.
I think you may sit there feeling anxious about what might happen, and your child may even pick up on that, making for a tense lunch. Plus won't he be bored? It won't be a quick lunch. He may become the focus of other diners too.

I’m just wondering why it is OK for adults to be loud and raucous in restaurants (birthdays, hen parties, workmates on a Friday) but not for a child to make a bit of noise. Hope you have a nice lunch out, OP.

I’m just wondering why it is OK for adults to be loud and raucous in restaurants (birthdays, hen parties, workmates on a Friday

who says it is?

No one should make enough noise to disturb any other diners. It's rude and bad mannered.

Go. Enjoy yourselves

It’s 1pm lunch. Kid are about

Obv Don’t let him run about And needs to sit at the table

I say the same to all children including my 3yr daughter

But I would have no problem him making in breathing noise

If it was late evening then different

But children need to learn to go out and nice manners and they do that by going out

I took my 3 year old and 1 year old to the granary Square brassiere in kings X the other day. They were great and the staff were lovely.

No no no no not on MN. No screens at the table wtf are you thinking. I’m thinking that my autistic son can cope with eating out and travelling long haul because he has learned to self regulate in an entirely age appropriate and mainstream friendly way, and as a result is happily having experiences and adventures that most autistic young men struggle the access. . It is possible that the pearl clutching horror of “Screens at table” might cause me an inner chuckle occasionally.

Be bold OP. Seize any opportunity you can to take him to as many places as you can.

When DD, also has SEN, was taken anywhere fancy, I would have a chat with the maître d' and say, "give me the look if there are any issues at all". They assess other diners' comfort better than I can. My favourite restaurant, the maître d' has three children who eat there and was lovely about it. His level of comfort was higher than mine frankly.

I have left when DD was struggling with how long service was taking. Left DH and the grandparents enjoying their dinner.

@pineapplepalmtree

if I went to a small intimate place for dinner I'd be annoyed at any children there never mind a 3yo making noises. can you go check the place out and see if other families are there?

Why would you be annoyed at any children being there? I don't get this attitude at all, if a child is there but behaving themselves and not disturbing anyone, why would you even notice?