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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To just bring a small child to a nice place to eat?

192 replies

FairyAndLavender · 05/09/2020 09:15

Im probably going to get a bashing for this...

I take DS out to eat a lot and he's okay, but they're only generic places that are clearly family friendly.

DS is 3 soon but has ASD and he makes a lot of loud sharp intakes of breath to self regulate.

He can be a bit tricky to keep still sometimes but I'd NEVER allow any getting down!

Anyway, it's my grandmother's birthday soon and I've booked a fancy tapas place in Covent Garden, the website says it is small and intimate so shouldn't be too many people there anyway.

AIBU to bring DS knowing there's a chance he could really annoy people? Sad

OP posts:
LynetteScavo · 05/09/2020 11:50

Absolutely take him.

People who eat out do expect to encounter other human beings, even small ones and people with SN.

They don't expect children to run around a restaurant, which you say you wouldn't let him do.

If it's too much for him you can take him outside for a walk around for a bit.

workhomesleeprepeat · 05/09/2020 11:53

I’ve been to Condesa and remember it being semi casual so probably ok? I was sat at the bar though can’t remember the tables. It’s not super silent and formal...besides if it gets a bit much can condone bring your son out for a quick walk? My brother is not NT and this what my parents did if we were eating out with others and he got a bit much

Lockdownhairdontcare · 05/09/2020 11:54

Condesa is lovely and very intimate, although all stools last time I was there

We went with friends and took all our kids (4-17) including one with ASN. We were made to feel very welcome, the waiting staff made such a fuss of the kids and laughed at DD’s ability to consume more Jambon than any other human Blush.

Go and enjoy your celebration!

Other places we have found to be lovely are The Ned, Joe Allen’s, Lobster Burger in Mayfair, J Sheekey and Zia Teresa.

withinacceptabletolerances · 05/09/2020 11:55

I'd go OP. I have an ASD lad with tics and I've never had a bad experience. You know him best, so, what keeps him calm? There's no shame in taking an ipad with headphones or something similar? My lad doesn't tic when he's gaming so I keep his Nintendo DS in my bag in case the tics get loud or start to annoy people. Some people disapprove of kids on screens in restaurants but if it means we can go out I don't care!! But please don't put your life on hold just because our society is intolerant of children and disabilities. Enjoy 😊 xxxx

BBCONEANDTWO · 05/09/2020 11:57

It's lunch so no problems - plus you can't NOT take your son to places - it's not his fault nor yours - enjoy a LOVELY meal.

dammit88 · 05/09/2020 11:58

If it suitable for a 3 year old, it is suitable for your DS. He shouldn't be excluded purely because his ASD means he may make certain noises.

RoseTintedAtuin · 05/09/2020 11:59

It’s a hard one. While I would take a child to chain type places like Wagamama etc. Places that are intimate or dining suggest a more adult environment where people choose to go to be around other adults. In that situation their enjoyment may be affected by a child becoming unsettled which I don’t think is fair on them. It really depends on if the place is child friendly or not. If it is then I think people are more tolerant.

Whatwouldscullydo · 05/09/2020 12:02

Places that are intimate or dining suggest a more adult environment where people choose to go to be around other adults

Then don't go at 1 0 clock in the afternoon when its pretty much a garuntee that many families would have booked to stop off for lunch.

Besides if u want a quiet dinner with no disruption then order a takeaway

Adult only rarely means its going to be relaxing and quiet. The public no matter their social standing are far more capable of acting inappropriately than a child could ever be.

Hen dos/stag do...enough said.

Jenasaurus · 05/09/2020 12:06

@FairyAndLavender

To the posters asking which one it is, it is called Comodas? Something like that, off the top of my head. If nobody knows it i will double check spelling on the actual booking!
Do you mean the condesa? That should be fine its outside eating so noise will be diluted :)
Itisbetter · 05/09/2020 12:08

I take my children out (including those with additional needs) to restaurants all the time. I have a large family and we like to eat out.

StarCat2020 · 05/09/2020 12:10

Hmm, not sure how to explain the sharp intakes of breath. The noise is hard to explain
I bet that no-one will hear or think anything of it any way.

It is only because you KNOW about it and think about it that you are worried about it.

How can I explain myself?

Breathing is natural and I have done it for 40 years but as soon as I start thinking about it, it seems odd and uncomfortable.

Does that make sense?

Have a nice time!

Brefugee · 05/09/2020 12:17

Almost anywhere else in the world, small kids regularly dine out at restaurants with their families. Yes, including kids with SN. I really don’t get why this is such an issue in parts of the U.K. Why are any restaurants that aren’t fast food outlets reserved solely for adults? Why do we have to hide our non NT kids away, like they’re somehow shameful? For an autistic kid, a quiet intimate restaurant is very likely to be your best bet.

not quite. Most places in the world that have an acceptance of children in restaurants also don't have the parents pp described who want to have their pub lunch and shove a plate of chips and the occasional glass of coke at their bored kids while chatting to their mates.

And i don't think that everyone who ever goes anywhere should do so with the expectation that they will always see/hear other people's children. Which isn't to say i don't think children should be allowed anywhere, but their parents should be aware of the amount of disruption they are causing (likewise loud disruptive adults though)

Tapas lunch should be fine as long as OPs son finds something he wants to eat, the portion sizes are ideal for children.

OldEvilOwl · 05/09/2020 12:21

Ring them and ask (the restaurant)

Peony9876 · 05/09/2020 12:22

Prior to covid we frequently took our autistic son out for tapas at the Port House on The Stand. The staff were absolutely brilliant with him and made us feel so welcome. He isn't this quietest but the venue at lunchtime was busy and noisy so we didn't feel we were disturbing others and never got any negative comments.

Ginkypig · 05/09/2020 12:23

Lunch is lunch it the best time for kids to go out to a restaurant because it's the most likely time they won't be tired and grizzly.
Your lad deserves as much as anyone else to have meals out and be in society and public and anyone who doesn't understand that isn't dry nice!
Obviously I'm not talking about a child who is running around unsupervised by imo irresponsible parents but that's a different issue.

If it had been a Saturday or possibly a Friday night when potentially lots of the adults will have had to get babysitters or are out on the one night free they get or have saved to afford a proper night out etc then I'd say any child who disrupts (not because of asd etc but just generally disruptive obviously) would be unwelcome but in my opinion anyone including adults would be unwelcome who are disruptive!

JinglingHellsBells · 05/09/2020 12:26

Surely the person you need to ask @FairyAndLavender is your grandmother?

it's her 'party' and she deserves to make the final call on what she'd like.

She will know your son and what to expect.

FairyAndLavender · 05/09/2020 12:29

Jingling I never said it was a party. Just a meal I have booked for her, myself and my son as a little day out to Covent Garden

OP posts:
Kaiserin · 05/09/2020 12:36

Children are people too, and (unless specific age restrictions are in place) have as much of a right to socialise in public places as anyone else.
Go and enjoy yourself with your family.

WombatChocolate · 05/09/2020 12:37

Everyone should be able to go out for meals....and fortunately there are a range of places available so that everyone can. However, they aren't all really suitable for everyone all the time. Whilst anyone is free to go anywhere anytime in theory, in reality, considering what you and your party will enjoy and also who else is likely to be there and if your presence will impact their enjoyment just seems sensible.

Many more places are suitable at lunchtime than evenings for small children. They are more relaxed, less stuffy and lots expect families to be in. Some still really aren't suitable often because they are quite stuffy and very quiet places and small children aren't very quiet usually. Most families wouldn't want to go and could easily think of lots of places with an environment more suited to their children, meaning they leave those who like the very quiet restaurant to enjoy it in peace.

For those with noisy children or those with needs which mean they might not be so quiet, who struggle with the idea that they are 'not allowed' to go to nice places or people are trying to prevent them...does it help instead to think of it more from the angle of whether those environments are such that YOU and your children will enjoy yourselves? Don't we all enjoy ourselves more when we feel comfortable, and part of that is also knowing the environment suits us and all the other diners there? Personally, my enjoyment is reduced when I feel other people are behaving extremely differently to me and particularly if I feel my groups behaviour is impacting them negatively. As an example, I avoid large, loud, busy pubs full of drunk people, because I don't enjoy them as I'm not usually loud and drunk. I also avoid pubs with sport on TV as I will want to chat to my friends and e chatting can be annoying to those watching the TV. I go to intimate, quiet restaurants when with DH alone or in groups of adults, finding there are other groups of adults and everyone is enjoying some child free time. I go to chain restaurants, often at lunchtime with the smaller children, knowing there will be ither families and people and staff are relaxed and a bit of noisy toddler or constant going past to the loo doesn't phase anyone. I take the older children to nice restaurants at lunchtime....they are able to sit quietly and enjoy the good food for a couple of hours with no trouble and we all enjoy it and don't impact others. So I consider the other people likely to be there and also what we will enjoy.

With very small children, I think there just is a phase where some of the nicer restaurants at nighttime have to be forsaken for a short period. Honestly, it's not asking the world to not go to them for a couple of years or to only go when on a rare child-free session. I don't like the entitled attitude of some parents with small children, that they will do absolutley whatever they like, regardless of the stage and behaviour their children are at and regardless of how it might impact anyone else at all. Children bring some limits to life....most things are short-lived phases, but just part of it.

I can see that having children with additional needs, who will always have them as they get older is difficult and potentially more restrictive long term, and that long term potential is what makes it especially hard. I guess that in reality parents in this situation consider what they will enjoy themselves and to be honest it's hard to enjoy an expensive meal in an intimate restaurant where other diners are very very quiet, if your child isn't quiet at all. You may be totally entitled to be there and to enjoy a luxury meal just like anyone else and your child might be too, but would you actually enjoy it, beyond the issue of making a point that you are entitled to be there?

I've been to restaurants /cafes where there are groups of adults with additional needs who have been brought out by their carer. They are usually lower-end, relaxed restaurants. Often the adults who have been brought are being fed by their carer, there can be lots of noise and mess....but everyone is having a good time. Of course they should be able to enjoy a meal out like everyone else....but the careers don't take them to a small, quiet and intimate restaurant where people spend £100+ per head on a Friday night. They could but they choose not to for the enjoyment if all concerned.

MintyMabel · 05/09/2020 12:39

Children are people too, and (unless specific age restrictions are in place) have as much of a right to socialise in public places as anyone else.

Every right comes with a responsibility.

MWNA · 05/09/2020 12:52

@FairyAndLavender

Bring some colouring, quiet toys in case he needs distracting

Haha, colouring. I wish he would do that! I also wish he would play with actual toys

My exact response when I read that! My autistic 4 year old with have no idea what to do with a pen! As for toys... How lucky some people are not to just know these things. It's hard. 😕 There's no way I'd take him to a posh restaurant. Middle of the day is local cafes, Harvester or Wimpy. Evenings would be a definite no.
Itisbetter · 05/09/2020 12:56

And i don't think that everyone who ever goes anywhere should do so with the expectation that they will always see/hear other people's children. Shock go to a public space and expect to see the public, black, white, old, young, disabled, able, EVERYONE. Angry

Itisbetter · 05/09/2020 13:01

You can find restaurant friendly toys. Ds had a set of the odd bods, some magnetic shapes that clicked together, oil and water drippy timers, and he is allowed to watch a video on my phone with the sound off, in between ordering and eating, and while we drink coffee. Nobody notices. And he is a large teen now and has travelled the world eating his ridiculously limited repertoire of food and being happy.

ivfbeenbusy · 05/09/2020 13:04

I'm confused if you know he's likely loud, not want to still sit AND possibly won't like dimmed lighting why you would subject him to it?? Sounds like it's something you forcing him into because you want a nice little adult lunch somewhere fancy? He's 3! Take him somewhere child friendly where you're both going to be more relaxed

I do have kids but I don't subject others to mine in predominately adult/grown up/clearly not family orientated restaurants or pubs and it really annoys me that other parents do

WombatChocolate · 05/09/2020 13:05

'Children are people too and have as much right to socialise in public places as anyone else'

No. Small children are not in a position to make choices like this for themselves and their parents need to make those choices for them.

None of us are islands but part of wider society and this is very evident when eating out. All of us need to consider both our own wants and desires and also consider those of others when we are in public places.

Just because we want to or would like to do something or go somewhere, even if we are able to go there, we should always consider if the environment will actually promote enjoyment for us or if our presence will impact that of others. Those who only consider themselves and what they want with zero consideration for anyone else is being selfish and entitled.

Regarding children.....they are exactly that. Some activities and places and locations are more suited to older or younger children or adults. There will often be grey areas, but certainly places which are not suitable for the very young (or do people want to argue that small children have right to go to nightclubs in exactly the same way as adults) and parents have to make choices and decisions about where they go, considerimg both what works for them and their family, but also with thought to others too.

So, why people would take a 2 year old to a restuarant which takes 3 hours to serve a full meal, in a setting which is small, intimate, expensive and tightly packed quiet environment is beyond me. Really.....does the 2 year old enjoy it and over 3 hours, are all those there for their special treat meal of the year going to be positively impacted by the child presence?