Are these women a pack of bitches or is it me?

[Hohohole]

I fully understand it could be me. I found out from one of the dad's at school that there is a WhatsApp group for the mum's. I've not been invited. It's been in place for years. I don't know why but it really stung. It's a small school about 30 parents in all. I've also walked by them all in a coffee shop before.
I'm nice and friendly about 5-10 years younger than them if it matters, I'm not particularly looking to make friends with them and don't hang around after school to chat.
I often get texts from the dad's in the school about stuff but never the mum's. The parents are quiet well off, where as I am not. I don't know why it's bugging me but I feel like a left out child at P.E.
Would you be hurt?

Why do they give out everyone’s number? I’d be absolutely livid if that happened. There is no way I’d like some parents having my number particularly as I work in the school too and have been approached by parents shouting and screaming in the playground because of incidents in school during my own time.

As for the group I’d loose no sleep over it and wouldn’t give a shiny shite

@ChikiTIKI

YANBU to be hurt.

But from what I've heard on MN, you're avoiding a whole load of bother by not being in it.

Those who have realised you're not in it are a bit unkind to stay in something that's excluding one person, in my opinion.

I’d be really surprised if anyone had kept a register and noticed who was in and who wasn’t. Even admins don’t always pay that much attention.

One of the super mums set our group up first day of reception. She asked the school for phone numbers and we had to agree to her having them first.

I left the group after a month and caused a massive fucking ruckus . They were talking shit about me after I left and another mate screenshot it all and sent it to me. I then messaged them each individually with the screenshots and asked them what their problem was

They are all super polite now. I’m not that woman who puts up with that shit. This is my 4th child through primary, don’t even try me

I'm not trying to diss women at all but are you quite good-looking?

People generally do what’s easiest. Have you made it easy for them to include you, or easy for them to exclude you?

No judgement and no significance meant - I’m a peripheral school gate parent too but I have enough friendly mums to chat to now and again and I don’t worry about the rest of it.

These WhatsApp groups aren’t started by someone diligently looking at the list of mobile numbers the school sends out. They’re started informally, bit by bit, and added to. I asked to be added to one last year and was included with a smile. It wasn’t a big deal. And it didn’t change much really!

If you keep your distance from them, they are merely maintaining it.

What I’m saying is: I understand your feelings of exclusion and I battle with those feelings sometimes, in general. But we have to take responsibility for how we come across to others and the reality we create.

If you don’t hang around chatting and you feel different to them (very aware of age difference) then you are a big part of why you’re not included. Again no judgement - I relate.

You can make changes - be actively friendly/approach for chats/ask to be included: “Hey, I’d love to be a part of the mums WhatsApp group, is it ok to add me?”

They are doing what’s easiest, and you can mold things to be more as you wish.

If they actively tell you no or snub you repeatedly then I guess they’re not worth bothering with but yeah, most people do what’s easiest.

It's too small a school for it to be an oversight.

There are potentially 50 or so people who could be in this group (working on the basis of 30 kids and 2 parents per child give or take a few). That it a pretty huge WA group for someone to manage. Do you genuinely believe that they sat down with the phone number list and added everyone except you? People have described how these groups evolve, that is just so unlikely unless you have concrete evidence that that is how they went about it.

(Also, if 30 kids in whole school, the class sizes must be tiny?)

Let's get one thing straight people:
It is NOT up to women to make other women feel included.

Not being besties with absolutely everyone, just because your sprogs go to school together, doesn't make women "bitches".

There's a WhatsApp group for the mums in my DD's class that I'm not part of. I couldn't give a crap - they are friends outside of school and it would be very weird if I expected people who aren't my friends to include me in their close group. It would be like approaching a group of women on a cafe asking to be their friends - and calling them bitches because they didn't approach me first.

Please let's stop doing a disservice to women by calling them misogynistic names when they won't accommodate absolutely everyone - even ones they don't realise get upset over the exclusion (even though the OP doesn't even want to be friend with them). It's sexist damaging bullshit. Just stop it!

I understand what you mean op it's a crappy feeling. However your not missing much at all! I left my child's class WhatsApp group as I found it draining, all the mums were just moaning about something or other every day and were all a bit stuck up ( don't mean that rudely but I literally felt like an outsider ) I'm also probably the youngest mum on the playground too not that it matters. I'm not well off but I'm married, have a stable job and home and just didn't want to listen to constant moaning about unnecessary things when there's so much more important stuff going on in the world!

I understand feeling left out. Please do not use the word 'bitches' though, as it is a classic term used by misogynists.

I'd just ask them. I would say something along the lines of "I hear you guys have a group about the kids and what's going on for them, is it OK to add my number we would like to get involved". It's one of the plus points of social distancing that we can't congregate at the school gates anymore. Hooray 😁

It’s probably a mistake. Ask to be added if you want to be.

Lots of sensible responses on thisnhread. Well done to you level
Headed people.

Id be tempted to create one for me and the fathers, since they are the ones passing on me messages.

@IslaBas
@MaryZe
😂

OP - you're better off out of it, as they don't sound like very nice people.
As other posters have said, there won't be any information on there that you wouldn't receive directly from the school.
Just smile and talk to the nice parents who respond like decent human beings.

We've got one adult DC and two primary school aged DC. Thank goodness whatsapp groups didn't exist when my eldest was at primary school. Parents interacted lot better then, as they had to make an effort to actually talk to each other in order to communicate effectively. The rubbish that gets posted on these nightmare parent whatsapp groups has got worse over the years. I don't do nonsense, so I simply left the whatsapp groups as soon as people started posting shite.
The problem is, some of the parents on these groups are just bored and/or insecure bullies. They look forward to the school gate drama and gossip as they don't have much else going on in their lives.

Op I really don't like the phrase pack of bitches to describe women.

School gate groups can be cliquey. I found it a bit with ds1s school, that was a small school too. There were the popular group who'd always huddle together, usually led by 2 women, they try to make sure their dc were in the friendship group together.

Fine they can be friendly with who they choose, but can make you feel horribly excluded if your dc is friends with theirs but the mums blank you, turn their backs on you in the playground if you try to speak to them.

Im so much happier when not part of a group
I cant cope with politics and oneupmanship and I am busy enough not to want to get involved in people's lives. Hold your own and go your own way. Can't think of anything worse.

GlummyMcGlummerson
👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏

This was me when ds1 was in junior school, I was a good 5-10 years younger than the other mums and single and was definitely excluded. I wasn’t doing the school run to make friends but it still hurt my feelings. After meeting partner and having ds2 I found when he started school that the next set of parents were complete opposite, I have made genuine friends with some and socialise with them frequently, looking back I imagine my younger age had something to do with it but honestly most of them were more into playground drama and cliques is hen the kids and I was much better keeping my distance

@GlummyMcGlummerson imo there's a difference between a friendship group and a clique.

It's not about friendships. These type of cliques can happen in offices too.

You can have a team and within that team there may be close friendships who meet outside work, go for lunch together. This is fine.

A clique is for example a team, and when a new person joins the team nobody will let them in. The team whispers and excludes the new member from general chit chat. Openly blanks them.

I'm not particularly looking to make friends with them and don't hang around after school to chat.

You can hardly blame the other mums if this your approach? They've obviously picked up on this vibe from you and moved on. Bit childish to moan about It after that you're not included?

Ugh. You’re so much better off not being part of it OP.
You say they’re well off whereas you’re not. I’m in the same boat as you, and as much as I am polite and friendly if the middle class mums talk to me, I feel a bit like we’re both on two different planets. I’d feel like the only the thing we have in common is the fact that our children are in the same class at school.

@IheartJKR

I’d be relieved op. Nothing good ever comes from these groups.

Agree with this. You have a right to be hurt if you're the only one left out, but you should also be relieved. Those groups are such a waste of time.

@GlummyMcGlummerson

Let's get one thing straight people: It is NOT up to women to make other women feel included.

Not being besties with absolutely everyone, just because your sprogs go to school together, doesn't make women "bitches".

There's a WhatsApp group for the mums in my DD's class that I'm not part of. I couldn't give a crap - they are friends outside of school and it would be very weird if I expected people who aren't my friends to include me in their close group. It would be like approaching a group of women on a cafe asking to be their friends - and calling them bitches because they didn't approach me first.

Please let's stop doing a disservice to women by calling them misogynistic names when they won't accommodate absolutely everyone - even ones they don't realise get upset over the exclusion (even though the OP doesn't even want to be friend with them). It's sexist damaging bullshit. Just stop it!

I agree. Unless there’s 29 mums in the group and they’re only excluding OP.

They’re not a pack of birches OP. Don’t refer to women that way.

I wouldn't call them bitches but I understand why you might feel hurt or left out.
I'm sure you've got your own friends whose DC are friends with your DC as well. That's who my mum socialised with from what I remember.

OP I know it's hurtful but try not to worry too much about it. I have been left out of almost every school group night out/whatsapp group since year R, even by a mum I am very friendly with and meet up with individually! But I have heard of several fallings out and I also overheard one group bitching about some of the other ones that they were about to go on a night out with. It doesn't bother me at all now. I just smile and nod and meet up with real friends out of school. I am quite glad not to be part of it. It's nice that the Dads keep you in the loop. They probably appreciate you being friendly. My DH does 50% of school runs and is ignored by all but one mum.

Sorry I shouldn't have used the word bitches.
I know I'm being childish, I'm ok with that. I'm surprised myself at the sting of it. I know I'm not the same as them and I don't want to be friends but I do want to be friendly.
I suppose I'm feeling lonely at the moment (I know that's nothing to do with them) but for it to be pointed out that I'm not included made me feel a bit shitty.
I never said I wanted to be "besties" @GlummyMcGlummerson, nor do I think it's a woman's job to make people feels included, why would i? I just think it's a humans job not to make people feel intentionally excluded.