Made to feel guilty. Dog rehomed

[MrsWarleggan]

My friends dog bit me, and 2 hours later, my toddler on Saturday. Biting me was my fault, toddler was just standing near him and hadn't even touched him.

He was a pup and without my knowledge they took him back to where they got him from yesterday. They are heartbroken.

Went round for dinner with other friends and I said to someone else that I felt guilty and instead of saying "Well, they shouldn't have bit" I got (didn't look at me) "Well yes, it's all very sad and I understand why you feel like that". I couldn't believe it, and made me feel even worse. Later on in the day my friends son, pushed my eldest who started crying and I was greeted with "I can't get rid of him too". I was dumbfounded, and didn't know what to say. This dog had my toddlers hand in its mouth for just being near him yet I'm being made out to be the bad person. Then followed numerous discussions throughout the evening about how devastated they are that he's gone and I felt massively uncomfortable for the rest of the day.

Transpires that another of the litter has been put down for biting a kid.

AIBU or are they??

[quote frumpety]@Jenasaurus they do calm down eventually , but your DS needs to stop him from mouthing people, it is quite exciting when new people visit and they get a bit full of themselves and grab in excitement, whippets and greyhounds are prone to a bit of bitey face in play ( check out youtube to see examples of this mad act !). It isn't biting in the true sense of the word, more of a play thing that needs to be controlled in triggering situations. I used to use the puppy yelp with mine when he did it ( not a GH or whippet but other sighthound ), but that was many moons ago and probably out of date as far as current dog training methods are concerned ? Dogs will play with each other quite roughly but generally don't bite too hard, so if you make a noise and react like they have they will back off.[/quote]
Thanks Frumpety. He hasnt ever hurt me, and he seems to be really affectionate. I havent heard of bitey face play, is that biting your face? My DS dog always come up for a lick of my face when I arrive but then he has what I call a crocodile motion where he turns his head and I feel his teeth, he isnt biting but mouthing. Not shutting his mouth on me but I am quite nervous of dogs so trying to be calm with him so he doesnt sense anything

I feel like this is very hard on the puppy to re-home because of this. I work with dogs everyday & puppies bite & nibble because they don't know the rules. Adult dogs bite because they're either scared or have been treated badly in the past - or very occasionally - & this is only my opinion (I've come across only 2 like this out of the hundreds I've handled regularly) because there's something not quite right - like some sort of problem they're predisposed to (it comes over as over sensitivity to anything at all, touch, smell, noise) almost like a canine autism although I'm sure that what I'm talking about is so rare that no research has been done.
A puppy though, very unusual to get an aggressive puppy, I'd say this puppy was overwhelmed with activity around them & hadn't learned the rules due to age. I don't think that the puppy would have really known what he was doing & should have been supervised very closely, especially after biting you.

@krustykittens poor thing. Mine has trauma that will never go. And physical scars to go with it. But he's a great dog.

Just seen on youtube, what you mean by bitey face, mainly between 2 dogs thankfully and seems to be a game :)

I think you have been made the scapegoat in this OP, they clearly had other concerns regarding the dog, I don’t think their actions were based on what happened to you and your DD alone.

What is wrong with mums net??Have you lost your minds? Puppies do bite, a 9 month old is a young dog NOT a tiny puppy. Depending on the breed could be fully grown or very nearly fully grown.

Puppy biting is when you get them and when they have their baby teeth ( so age 2-3 months.) You teach them not to bite people, you give them toys to chew. to help them with getting their adult teeth. Adult teeth are usually all in by 6 months.

Of course dogs are very playful when young and often boisterous, but this doesn't sound the case. OP sounds the best thing they got rid of the dog, don't worry, but yes you should of left when you were bitten. But you should of challenged your friends rude comments and left again. Ridiculous dogs can't go around drawing blood. And I have a dog so I'm not a dog hater.

I don't know if I missed what breed the dog was, but I don't really think it's an excuse that some breeds are nippy, the dog was wrong.

So the puppy had socks, the amount of chasing around the house I've done with my own Collie, well I've lost count, and yes she growled at me as they are very protective, she's calmed down alot now at just under 2 years old, especially with the socks, but Collies can be very protective over what they see as theirs, but my god she is the most loving bloody thing ever, she absolutely loves giving humans a huge hug and a lick

So it was perhaps resource guarding and didn’t know you well either?
But having been bitten you chose to allow your child to be close enough to be bitten as well.
Supervising a dog and child doesn’t mean being in the same room. It means ensuring a child can NEVER be hurt by the dog. Sit between them? Dog on a lead? Dog behind a stair gate?

9 months may be a pup but there’s no excuse for a dog that bites. All my dogs I’ve ever owned ‘mouthed’ as puppies as they do when teething, but this only lasted until they were 4-6 months max. Behavioural issues after this are learnt or taught, the dog should have been trained or in training.
Dogs can and do turn suddenly though, you only need to look online at the awful stories of children being attacked by (previously) gentle dogs with no warning.
I’m thinking the dog has done it before and the owners realised it’s becoming too dangerous to keep. It certainly isn’t your fault, it’s their dog and their full responsibility to keep it under control.
If another of the litter has bitten too, they were likely bred from aggressive dogs. Backyard breeders have no concern about doing that, I just hope they are investigated by the police too.
Ignore the comment, they weren’t there so they don’t know the full story and the dogs owners may have downplayed it out of shame and made you look responsible. I hope they apologised and checked on your dc, at least.

This is why many responsible Dog's Homes will NOT re-home to families with young children.

A puppy needs properly socialising.

Young children and young dogs are a bad mix, generally.

Ignore OP. You have every right to feel the aggrieved party here, not to feel guilty. Your child could have been badly hurt.

How much training had they done without a trainer? There's lots of info out there about helping dogs not to be possessive.

All I know is Collies are highly intelligent working dogs. They need a lot of exercise, stimulation and training. Not great as a docile, cute pet. They need much, much more than that. Sounds like your friends weren’t prepared to put the work in and basically got totally the wrong breed to be around small children and fit in with their lifestyle. Poor pup!

@Jenasaurus

Just seen on youtube, what you mean by bitey face, mainly between 2 dogs thankfully and seems to be a game :)

Lurchers especially love a game of ''Bitey face''...It iOS a sort of gentle ''mouth wrestle'' with open mouths, scissoring and often a whining ''eee-eee-eee-- and knitting together of teeth.

Quite harmless, but those not used to it can think ''Oh look- they are FiGhTiNg''

@Blacksheepcat

All I know is Collies are highly intelligent working dogs. They need a lot of exercise, stimulation and training. Not great as a docile, cute pet. They need much, much more than that. Sounds like your friends weren’t prepared to put the work in and basically got totally the wrong breed to be around small children and fit in with their lifestyle. Poor pup!

If the biting dog was a Border Collie? That is a grossly inappropriate breed for a family with young children..They are sound sensitive, often highly strung, have massive exercise needs and mental stimulation needs- I have seen Border collies wound hop manically by being in the wrong homes They are ''sharp'' and utterly unsuited to the average lazy owner.

An adult who wants to do Flyball or agility, and put hours into the dog is a much better bet.

@Jenasaurus

Can I ask when do puppies tend to grow out of the mouthing stage. My DS has a lovely 8 month old whippet and whilst he doesn't draw blood he is so excited when you first arrive to visit he does mouth a bit which makes me a little nervous of him. Do they calm down when they are neutered?

Whippets ought not to be ''mouthy'' at all, but sadly far too many dogs don't get the initial training not to be mouthy.

It sounds like it is a learned behaviour..None of our dogs have been mouthy beyond baby teeth stage, but we used to 'yelp' if they made contact with human skin, even softly, so they learned to inhibit bite-

Whippets ought not be ''excited'' either- I'd advise totally ignoring the whippet when you first arrive, not even looking at him, keep your hands to yourself, and only when he is calm, call him to you.

Neutering doesn't normally ''calm'' a dog down...It sounds like Whipster doesn't get enough exercise?
A well exercised Whippet is often a couch potato. 👍

It sounds like you were fishing for sympathy and expected lots of poor yous The dog bit hard enough to leave puncture wounds and you hung around for another 2 hours until he but your son. I can see why your friends had limited sympathy.

Well, quite. What did you expect your friends to say exactly?

It's just as well the puppy has been rehomed having said that. Hopefully his new owners will train him properly.

I'm confused, in your last post you've wondered if there has been other incidents, but in an earlier post you'd admitted it had bitten it's owners at least twice.

Both you and the owners were irresponsible by keeping the dog in your presence, and that of your toddler, after it had bitten you.

Did you know if had bitten it's owners at least twice before or after you got bitten?

Both your daughter and the puppy have been badly let down by the adults in this situation.

I have no idea why people have decided this is the OPs fault.

People aren't really blaming her for the dog getting rehomed, but for her DD being bitten, as for some reason she allowed her young child to remain around a dog who has just bitten her. Highly irresponsible and potentially very dangerous parenting.

A 9 month old dog should be well beyond puppy mouthiness and neither circumstances sounds remotely like that. One sounds like resource guarding and the other like an issue around collies and movement. I wasn’t at all surprised when you said collie cross. Most Border collies make terrible pets, especially when their herding instinct comes out. The herding instinct is at heart a predators instinct to chase and a lot of collies will go for and bite moving things - legs, wheels etc. I’ve been around dogs and working dogs my entire life and the only ones that have ever tried to bite or snap have been collies. They really shouldn’t be kept as pets unless they have a ‘job’ to do and very experienced owners.
OP, this is in no way your fault. Some of the responses on this thread are quite frankly bonkers. Good owners take responsibility for their dogs, which can mean protecting the dog from circumstances which may cause it to react, and protecting other people from their pet. These incidents were very unlikely to have been one offs and you may have been the final straw but that in no way makes this your fault.

@vanillandhoney exactly this "People aren't really blaming her for the dog getting rehomed, but for her DD being bitten, as for some reason she allowed her young child to remain around a dog who has just bitten her. Highly irresponsible and potentially very dangerous parenting."

The dog owners are very irresponsible for multiple reasons, but it is ultimately their decision to return the dog to the backside breeder puppy mill.

Jenasaurus two things for your DS to do - train his dog for calm behaviour when visitors arrive (sit & wait away from the door, ignored unless he has four feet on the floor, something like that) and also redirect the mouthing away from people onto a toy.

Excited mouthing at that age can easily become an ingrained behaviour which in a grown dog can cause damage especially if the dog becomes frustrated or over-excited.
Training is ALWAYS the answer.

YABU for allowing your child to be around the dog after they’ve just bitten you. Common sense would of been to not be around the dog? Ask the dog to be shut away? Or leave?

YANBU for being upset though, but you can’t really be angry for it biting your child when you knew exactly what it was like.

How on earth is a dog biting the OP the OP's fault? It's the owner's fault.

As for the toddler the OP said she was in the same room. Why did the owner not take the dog away after the first bite?

It's not my responsibility to avoid being bitten by a dog, it's the owner's responsibility to stop it biting me!

OP there are some very strange responses on here.

What mother allows a dog near their child after being bitten in the way you describe?

I'm a dog owner and wouldn't allow for this to happen, I'd leave or say to put the dog elsewhere.

Bad parenting.

I could only get two pages in, but heres my 2pence worth having dealt with a rather bitey large breed dog.
Yes they can and should be trained but the place for a dog who bites hard enough to draw blood and bites with no warning is not in the same house as a toddler.
I could keep my bitey little bugger but it came at a cost. DD was an adult size and the dog has never done as much as look at DD wrong, but he did bite two of her friends (very early on as I'd not long got him and he was supposedly good with kids)
I cannot have him in the house and have any children here. Hes better, but it's a risk I cant take.

I usually dont agree with getting rid of dogs, but you have a toddler who has already been bitten by the dog. It sounds like dog needs training and to not be around small children. Atleast one of those you cannot provide for it.
Then theres the worry of what if they get out whilst you're trying to make the situation better with their biting and they hurt someone?

Potentially you're saving this dogs life by allowing it to be back with the breeders who can train it.