Made to feel guilty. Dog rehomed

[MrsWarleggan]

My friends dog bit me, and 2 hours later, my toddler on Saturday. Biting me was my fault, toddler was just standing near him and hadn't even touched him.

He was a pup and without my knowledge they took him back to where they got him from yesterday. They are heartbroken.

Went round for dinner with other friends and I said to someone else that I felt guilty and instead of saying "Well, they shouldn't have bit" I got (didn't look at me) "Well yes, it's all very sad and I understand why you feel like that". I couldn't believe it, and made me feel even worse. Later on in the day my friends son, pushed my eldest who started crying and I was greeted with "I can't get rid of him too". I was dumbfounded, and didn't know what to say. This dog had my toddlers hand in its mouth for just being near him yet I'm being made out to be the bad person. Then followed numerous discussions throughout the evening about how devastated they are that he's gone and I felt massively uncomfortable for the rest of the day.

Transpires that another of the litter has been put down for biting a kid.

AIBU or are they??

OP never asked them to rehome the dog. The owners just didn’t want to put the work into training him so took the easy route out.
Dog was let down by his owners.

So the dog bit you but you didn't supervise your toddler well enough to stop it biting him/her.

You have some responsibility here, puppies bit to explore the world - it's like toddlers putting everything in their mouth.

Dis they offer to lock the dog away after it bit you? In their shoes in would have.

If people trained dogs properly this would not happen. Not the dog's fault, the owner.

You say the owner was experienced but they weren't.
You say you've always had dogs yet you're surprised at the situation that unfolded.
That dog shouldn't have been with such a large gathering especially with so many children around.
For whatever reason it bit you, that was a sign it felt under attack and that was the time when it should have been left in a calm quiet space away from all the people.
Your DH should have given the puppy a wider berth with your toddler that is common sense but the owners were treating a puppy the way they'd treated a well socialised mature dog.

What type of dogs are these?

It sounds to me like lockdown dogs that people have got sick of, and now want an excuse to get rid.

And after biting you (for whatever reason) the dog should have been put in a different room (and your DH shouldn't have been walking your DD past it- toddlers' jerky movement can upset or startle a dog, and it sounds like that puppy (and 9months IS a puppy) was over-excited to start with.

And yes I’d never trust a 9’month old puppy around a toddler. They just aren’t mature enough and can get over excited.

So puppy should have been in a separate room and this would never have happened.

What did he have on his mouth? Was it dangerous? Otherwise you don’t know that he’s learnt the ‘drop’ cue and you pointing at him whilst he had something in his mouth could have set him off. He may be a ‘resource guarder’. Sees you as a threat to what he has. Then at that point his stress levels are through the roof. After he bit you he would be over stimulated so should have been nowhere near a small child at that point.
Failures all round from all the adults involved. Yet the dog is the one that suffers.

I think you got that response as a tactful, diplomatic stance due to your mutual friend.

YANBU and don’t let other people make you feel bad.

Young puppies do tend to be 'bitey'....a bit like babies putting everything in their mouths. With training and time they tend to grow out of it.

Oh my god ,what am I reading ,they are crocodiles at that age ,why was toddler near the dog after it had mouthed u
I agree with other posters the owners used that as an excuse to get rid

A nine month old dog is not “just a baby”. Not an adult, but way past the baby stage

Still a puppy - and if it's a large breed, they mature much later than smaller ones.

At this age there will be no malice - it will be fear or over-excitement. It was the owner's job to keep the pup safely calm and out of the way; your job to ensure your toddler didn't get near it.

I have an 11year old Lhasa Apso, a gentler dog has never been born, but when we have guests round (especially tiny guests) he is put into another room with a nice bone.
I trust my dog but I don't ever want him to be in the position where he has reacted badly/bitten someone and is then in trouble. He is too precious for that.

You don’t coax things off a dog and definitely not a dog that is not yours, he would see that as a threat.

The dog should have a drop command. If my dog has something he shouldn’t we sharply stay “drop” and he immediately does so. He has been doing that since young.

This ^

Swap a treat for the other item, telling him "Leave" and rewarding him when he does.

Collie crosses - especially if from a backyard breeder - need careful training, socialisation and ongoing work and supervision. They are not ideal dogs for inexperienced dog owners with young children.

And this ^

Collies are extremely intelligent but highly reactive. they are bred that way - they are a working breed and need to be able to think for themselves and react very quickly to perceived threats. They also nip, because that is how they control sheep and cattle.

You can't blame a dog for doing what people have bred into them.

The owners have not put the time in with this pup, and they have exposed him to more stimulation thane can cope with.

@MrsWarleggan what @NoSquirrels said really. Clueless people that buy a badly bred (any dog that is backyard bred is badly bred) dog from dubious puppy mill people (all breeders that breed without license are a mill). The dog will end up bad. If you can, please educate your friends to rehome a dog, or get one for a lot of money but from a reputable breeder, with a good character and support network. Also a trainer.

1. Is this their first dog?
2. do you have or have you ever had a dog?
3. why were you trying to take anything out of a strange dog's mouth?
4. who and why called the police? (this is very weird)

It's not a dig at you by any means, I would be scared if a dog bit my toddler or myself but the situation, as portrayed, makes little sense to me.

YANBU, but have strength in your conviction. Nobody can make you feel anything, you choose to feel.
Tbh, the first bit of passive aggressiveness we'd have been gone and never to return.

Different dogs have different 'drop' commands, too. My dog responds to 'leave' for things I don't want him to have. 'Drop/bring' only relates to playing with a toy for me to throw.

It sounds like a very difficult situation all around, but if I'd been bitten by the dog, I'd expect the owner to either shut the dog away for the rest of the visit, or for the visit to end so the dog could be calmed. I certainly wouldn't carry on regardless (as the owner or the visitor).

@ZooKeeper19

1. Its not their 1st dog.
2. I do not have one at the moment, but have had 2 in the past.
3. I didn't try to take anything out of his mouth. I told him to drop "come on drop" and pointed finger to the floor.
4. Police were not called. They were called by the hospital after another pup from the same litter, in another home bit another child.

@RunningFromInsanity

Only on MN can a dog bite several people without warning including a child, and the victim get blamed for it What a joke this place is sometimes.

OP never asked for the dog to be rehomed. The owners must already have been considering it, probably due to the previous bites.

This is the owners fault for failing to train the dog. No one else’s.

Totally agree with this! Crikey, some of the replies on here..

This isn't your fault. Inexperienced owners with no concept of training or safety. Seriously, move on x

I own a breed that is known for biting. There is so much training that goes into possessiveness alone, it becomes part of daily routines. I would never trust my dog with small children and as an owner I feel it is my responsibility. It sounds like the owners are upset and you are a scapegoat but that being said I would hope that you would remove your DC from this kind of situation. The first bite should have been an adequate warning and it sounds like you got away lightly in this situation.

If a dog is biting unprovoked and drawing blood at 9 months, the problem is likely to continue. That is not bitey puppy play: it’s real biting. I have two dogs who cannot be trusted except with family members, but they weren’t like that at 9 months. As they got to a year and beyond, that problem emerged. So, if your friends couldn’t find a way to manage the issue, they were right to rehome.

I didn't try to take anything out of his mouth. I told him to drop "come on drop" and pointed finger to the floor.

You said the bite to you was your fault. If all you did was say "drop" and point it absolutely wouldn't be your fault. I think your story is changing significantly as we go.

If a dog bit me unprovoked, and this current iteration implies that, I would not have had my toddler near it. You can't have it both ways.

Like other PP, I'm more surprised that OP let her young child stand near the puppy who just bit her.

This thread is ridiculous. OP it is not your fault. There is a huge difference between an excited mouth and aggressive blood drawing. I imagine this was the straw that broke the camel’s back and dog has been resource guarding for a while. Don’t blame yourself.

If the dog had already gone for you, then the owners should have taken the dog away from everyone then and there and not been given the opportunity to go after your toddler.
They sound irresponsible.

@vanillandhoney

Sure for a human, for a dog that's fully grown and certainly past any nipping.

Nine months isn't fully grown - it's bang in the middle of the teenage years, where commands and good behaviour often go right out of the window.

Exactly - hormones are flooding the system, boundaries are being tested - and OP from the way you described the "coaxing" I got the impression that you had taken hold of the "thing" and were gently pulling, perhaps while saying "No' or "leave". The odds are that ANY dog that doesn't know you will loosen its grip and IMMEDIATELY grab at the item again, to get a firmer hold.

I'm betting that this is how you got bitten hard enough to bleed.

Our dog is now 20 months I still spend about half an hour a day doing some sort of training

Training - or at least consolidation of training - is a lifelong thing.

Only on MN can a dog bite several people without warning including a child, and the victim get blamed for it

There will have been a warning - it went unheeded, unnoticed or ignored.

And the biting of the OP was the warning not to leave the dog in a situation where it was obviously over-excited or stressed.

It was ignored.

It is INCREDIBLY RARE for any dog to bite without warning. Many trainers will argue that it never happens, but that there are some dogs which are so receive that their owners have to be very alert.

Puppies don't "attack".