For considering forward facing a two year old...

[RowboatsinDisguise]

I recently took DS’s ERF car seat out and gave the covers a good scrub and rinse as with potty training (wee only!) and general life debris they were utterly rank. In the meantime we’ve been using a spare group 1 FF seat. I much prefer it! It’s about a million times easier to strap him in (being heavily pregnant this is a massive factor), he’s happier chatting to me and seeing what’s going on, if he starts shouting I can work out why pretty much immediately... it’s just so much more pleasant for both of us!

Is it really so awful to want to keep him FF? I know why ERF is recommended. I’ve seen the crash tests. I know the stats. But I also know that the overall likelihood of being in a crash remains low and that forwards facing seats do still provide protection. I just don’t know what to do now!

RF is about the simplest thing you can do to significantly increase safety for a child.

But that said, a 2 year old is past the most dangerous period for forward facing, which is up to about a year, including a bit past the first birthday. This is why newer car seats disallow forward facing before a minimum of 15 months - if you look at accident data and draw a line to save the most lives, it's there. That's why the new law draws the line there. You're not saving all the lives that could possibly be saved by rear facing - that line is more like age 3, possibly 4. But in terms of removing the grossest risk period, it's 1 year + about 3 months.

Forward facing car seats still have a massive injury reducing effect if you were to be in a crash, and to me the important part is that you're using a car seat at all, and that you're using it properly. If you've read the instruction manual thoroughly and made sure to follow the instructions, you're already doing much better than the majority of people!

If you would like to ERF but are finding it difficult I can try to help you find another seat if you would like. Ditto if you would like to forward face and are wondering about the performance of the seat you currently have and whether to get a different one.

But generally the most important thing you can do for car safety is use the seat that you have correctly.

@alphabetsoup1980

My daughter 13 months is in a forward facing maxi cosi pearl and in a familyfix iso fix Base!! It's completely safe xx

You may think so but its actually illegal to forward face that early:

www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/road-safety/car-seat-laws/

Wait, I'm pretty sure my kids faced forward as soon as they were out of their newborn sized car seats. They were pretty big at two. Is this a new thing? My kids are teens and recommendations have changed since they were little.
Course I grew up when the only car seats were your parent's lap!

[quote Sailingblue]I’d also like to see the stats on ‘most people don’t’ because it must be more and more common. Most of the car seat manufacturers will now openly say that rear facing is safer eg this from Joie uk.joiebaby.com/lookbacklonger.uk/[/quote]
I think it’ll be Because many of the big stores don’t have rf seats. John Lewis / mothercare / Halfords don’t think they store the rf only ones that have passed the plus test. So you’ve to buy them from specialised stores (and are generally more expensive)

Car seat advice UK on Facebook is helpful when posts are open (there is lots of archive material that is also informative).

Rear facing toddler for those of you who doubt they exist. He has a serious cranial disorder and will rear face until he can’t any more, as his skull will always be heavier.
The seat swivels so means getting him in and out is much easier.
But everyone needs to make their own risk assessment as a parent and deal with the consequences should anything happen.

My DS was FF since about 10 months - with an isofix base. I much preferred being able to see him in my mirror and he was very happy too. It never occurred to me that it wouldn't be safe. I can't recall any of my friends not using FF after the first stage car seats - it was the norm (this was 8 years ago).

I must say like other posters I don’t know anyone who RF much past 12/18 months either.

Where on earth do children put their legs if they are rear-facing?

I'd be interested in seeing a rear facing 5 year old (18kg) or 8 year old (25kg) in an easily available and affordable seat.

Rear facing is another one of those things that only happens on mumsnet. In the real world I don't know anyone who rear faces a 2 year old.

Same here.

OP it depends on how much you use the car and for what type of journey. Also how shouty your child will be in RF and how much this will bother you. I am a nervous driver and cannot drive well with a shouting or crying child, also we use the car for local low speed journeys (limited chance of high speed collision but much bigger chance of high traffic/distraction type accident) so for me it is safer to FF.

@sycamorecottage

Where on earth do children put their legs if they are rear-facing?

www.besafe.com/utvikling/en/misconceptions-rear-facing-car-seats/

rf older children in readily available affordable seat.

DS14 went into a forward facing high back booster seat at 2.5 years old - here's here to tell the tale

DS is going to be three in January and still RFs. Our seat is a joie something or other. Not hugely expensive. He is big for his age etc.

His legs fit in fine. I did wonder, but they do fit. He likes being in the car. Absolutely no problems with it. As far as I'm concerned he can stay RF till he's four, but he could have other ideas. We don't do much motorway driving, except on weekends, so, if he was screaming his head off every time we put him in, or got car sick like dc1 used to do, we would probably move him.

His older sibling was FF much earlier. I think from about 18 mo.

£275 is a weekly wage in the real world.

I'm surprised at how many people FF so young. Why take the risk regardless of how small you believe it is? It reminds me of the grape argument that some never cut for their toddlers and they're fine so what's the big deal 🙄

I'm clearly sadly one of the minority who still RF my 3.5 yo. No plans to change him yet as will be buying an ERF seat once he reaches 18kg.

Ultimately it's your call as a parent to do what you feel is best.

@tiredanddangerous I don't know anyone who FF their 2/3 year old.

I'd seriously prefer the aggravation and a bit of a whinge than I would FF. Absolutely a risk I would never take

Yes £275 is a lot of money, but it’s one seat from birth to high back booster, so probably cheaper than an infant carrier and then a ff seat.

Rear faced my two children until nearly 5 years old. Once they moved to a ERF seat (be safe Izi plus for us) they were really happy as it’s higher so they were better able to see out.

From about 2 1/2 they could climb in themselves and straps easy. Had a good sized mirror for each so we could see each other fine when needed.

I think the key is the right seat for you & child and good mirrors. I think it’s still more difficult to ERF in the UK as more difficult to get good advice about right set up.

@Tfoot75

My 7yo is only just over 25kg - she's a few cm from being tall enough not to need a car seat at all. (she's ff since about 12 months as was the norm at that time)

Another one here who doesn't know anyone who rf after about 18 months.

OP I believe it's a mostly theoretical risk - I'm not aware that there have been any cases of internal decapitation (which is what a rf seat protects against) in this country while in a legal car seat. It is a crash test scenario that in reality has a 1 in several million chance of happening.

It's not a theoretical risk, sorry. These kinds of things aren't publicised because of course nobody in their right mind is going to say to a parent who has just lost a child "Well, it's because they were in a forward facing seat" (also you simply couldn't know that based on the information you have at the scene of an accident) but there have been massive scale studies done across Europe, across the US for example, which show a clear difference in outcomes. There is also a lab in Sweden where they recreate accident scenarios where children have died despite being in car seats and they simulate the crash using computer systems (I believe) and generally they find that in most cases a rear facing seat would have saved the child's life. I wish I could find the article I have saved about this but I have too many car seat links bookmarked now so I can't . I must stress, we are talking about an absolutely tiny number of accidents. The vast majority of children are protected well in modern car seats whether they are rear facing or forward facing, but there are a certain unlucky few and this is absolutely real, not theory.

In this country - I don't know specifically. But physics doesn't change because you're in a different country and UK uses an international (UN) regulation to approve car seats.

OTOH, there seem to be two different goals and I think people misunderstand this - there is the goal of reducing fatalities/serious injuries as far as humanly possible, in which case rear face for as long as you can or to a minimum of 3 years 9 months, or there is the goal of reducing fatalities/serious injuries in general in which case you start with the most vulnerable group - the youngest, and those improperly secured - and work from there.

In real life we do not always follow best practice, it's a case of balancing risks against another. If you want to be very pedantic, taking children in a car at all is a risk that we do not have to take, but most people do choose to take this risk because it is practical. Therefore we use car seats to mitigate (even though not entirely eliminate) the risk. You could take the same attitude to forward facing when practical/preferred. Accept that it is a higher risk and make sure to do things like always tightening the harness correctly and ensuring not to overload the limits of the seat.

There is sometimes a feeling in pro-ERF spaces that it is possible (and therefore preferable; therefore "good parenting") to eliminate ALL risk from a child's life and I do not think this is helpful or practical. Also I see parents in utter turmoil and anxiety when it comes time to turn their children around sometimes at 5 or 6 years old! Anxiety about a six year old in a booster seat (unless they have special needs) is misplaced, and says to me that the message isn't quite getting through with the correct level of nuance.

whirlwindwallaby I’ve got a 4yo 18kg 110cm child rear facing. She will be taller than the vast majority of children her age and she just crosses her legs and has never been uncomfortable. Seat wasn’t cheap though at £200 plus so it won’t be for everyone. I am very much aware that not everyone will be in a position to spend as much on car seats.

You already know rear facing is safer so not sure what you want people to say?

I’m assuming it’s because you want to see how many forward face their young children to make you feel more at ease with your decision? However, even if a thousand people on here say they forward face that still doesn’t mean it’s the safest option for your child.

If you want to forward face then do it, many people do. You know what is the safest but if you want to do something else because it is the more pleasant option, then that’s your choice to make.

As many posters have said - just do your own risk assessment and act accordingly.

Ours was about £100, birth to 18kg, DS then moved to a high back booster from 5 to 10. I didn't even look at the more expensive seats to be honest as I couldn't afford them.

Okay!