For considering forward facing a two year old...

[RowboatsinDisguise]

I recently took DS’s ERF car seat out and gave the covers a good scrub and rinse as with potty training (wee only!) and general life debris they were utterly rank. In the meantime we’ve been using a spare group 1 FF seat. I much prefer it! It’s about a million times easier to strap him in (being heavily pregnant this is a massive factor), he’s happier chatting to me and seeing what’s going on, if he starts shouting I can work out why pretty much immediately... it’s just so much more pleasant for both of us!

Is it really so awful to want to keep him FF? I know why ERF is recommended. I’ve seen the crash tests. I know the stats. But I also know that the overall likelihood of being in a crash remains low and that forwards facing seats do still provide protection. I just don’t know what to do now!

This is mad, I had no idea about this. When my little on grew out of his seat I looked up the government guidelines which said rear of forward facing is the next step, they really don't say on there that it's such a big deal to get forward facing, it literally says you have two choices and that's it. So then I went and chose based on the best deal and ensured was within the guidelines. Baffling there's like this massive secret club I didn't know about that had made it a huge deal

Right, but children in rear facing car seats don't need to sit with their legs facing upwards all the time. Some choose to rest their legs upright on the seat back, but that's not the only place they can go.

Most older rear facing children have enough space to do something like this. (This is an Axkid promotional photo, but shows a normal installation of their seat).

I'm a bit reluctant to nick some random parent's photos of their child so I can't show you other leg positions, but if you are genuinely interested you can google "ERF leg position" to see all the other positions which are possible, including crossed legs (like children are encouraged to sit at school) and legs off the sides of the seat.

If you are worried about DVT then realistically forward facing is worse because children generally only have one possible place to put their legs, and they are generally dangling without any foot support. I remember that DS1 complained of pins and needles in his legs when we drove from Stansted airport to West Wales in one day, he was forward facing in a booster seat but at 6 yo his legs were dangling, unable to touch the floor. We put a suitcase in for him to rest them on and he was much happier.

Luckily, most children aren't usually sitting in car seats for hours and hours every day so it's likely to be a non issue anyway.

@alphabetsoup1980

You're breaking the law FF that early.

So clearly it's not "perfectly safe"

"Right, but children in rear facing car seats don't need to sit with their legs facing upwards all the time. Some choose to rest their legs upright on the seat back, but that's not the only place they can go."

Depends on the length of the legs and the age of the child. I'd be interested on hearing where else you think they can go. The only way is up surely?

Nope. See photo above - the seat is installed with a small gap so that the feet can rest between the child seat and the car seat. Or they can cross them on the seat itself as they often have a fairly deep base, like you could on a sofa if you wanted to. If the sides of the seat are low enough and/or the child's legs are long enough they can rest one off each side of the seat, too.

Bertie has suggested what you could have a look at for some ideas. Given your children are beyond this point (I think) I'm not sure why you're quite so invested though!

My daughter is 7 and forward facing since she was 5.

Her legs cause her way more discomfort on long journeys now than when she was ERF.

She tries to cross them etc but they just slip back down. It's generally what annoys her if she's trying to sleep in the car.

RF has been normal in other countries for decades. UK is very behind in car safety.

I don't think my children ever put their legs up at a 45 degree angle, and they are all off the charts tall.

Bertie, that photo is of a small child, I'm talking about older ones. The only pictures you can find on google of older kids has their legs way up in the air or open at the hips and knees at right angles, if the seat allows as older kids are also bigger width ways. Older kids wouldnt be able to get their feet in that gap.

@tootiredtothinkofanewname surely that child isn’t harnessed in properly? Or are they?

Tbh I don’t know why I’m questioning it, I’d never heard of any of this stuff before and planned to swap my son soon (he’s 14 months) but this thread has definitely taught me/convinced me otherwise.

@tiredanddangerous

Rear facing is another one of those things that only happens on mumsnet. In the real world I don't know anyone who rear faces a 2 year old.

We rear face a 3 year old and a 20 month old. So it does happen!

Really? He looks about five to me. He is nearly at the limit of the seat. I would guess about 115-120cm tall based on where he is positioned in it.

How old are you thinking? Those seats are only meant to go up to about 6. If there are children older than 6 in them, they are usually small for their age.

Also any of you who are sat on a sofa right now.

Are you legs bent at the knee, feet on the floor, or do you have them lifted up/resting on something. Because the latter is way comfier.

@tootiredtothinkofanewname oh sorry, not the photos of the actual kids but the little comparison picture you posted afterwards. I thought their harnesses stopped them coming out of the seat so much.

I am actually in a car seat on the sofa as I think it’s safer to be belted in (just in case) and I mostly have legs on floor but alternate throughout the evening.

@OhToBeASeahorse

Bertie has suggested what you could have a look at for some ideas. Given your children are beyond this point (I think) I'm not sure why you're quite so invested though!

I bought my 18 month old nephew's seat, so it's not just about people's own children. I wish I'd known there were actually affordable options to ERF, I bought a 0+/1 seat for him rather than a baby capsule so my sister wouldn't have to worry about another seat for 4-5 years.

Our DD is 3 and is still RF. He is only petite so will be RF for a good while yet.

The safety advice is clear, it's safer, so why you wouldn't protect your child I really don't know.

This child was six years old when the photo was taken.

erfmission.com/axkid-wolmax-review/20170513_152023/

Babs I believe that is an especially bad example of a forward facing seat! Most modern good ones defo wouldn't allow that amount of forward movement. But there is still significant force on the neck in a frontal impact in a forward facing seat, and this can be catastrophic particularly in younger children and/or at higher speeds. This is why racing drivers wear a HANS device in their cars, to prevent the neck from stretching if they are in a bad crash.

Ohtobeaseahorse....I can be as invested as I like, thanks. I'd already googled pictures long before Bertie put hers up, which as I've said is a small child with short legs. My comments have clearly been around the suggestions older children age 4 to 6 should be rf. Age 4 to 6 my kids legs would have reached the back window.

Ok. I guess you just must have giant kids.

Honestly I find this all a bit odd.