AIBU to think teachers should not be teaching sex games to children?

[2fallsagain]

Article In today's Times about teaching resources for RSE from the proud trust.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/government-gives-pupils-sex-advice-on-the-roll-of-a-dice-80hmsplws

In summary "The government has funded a tool kit written by the Proud Trust, an LGBT charity, which includes dice featuring words such as “anus”, “vulva”, “penis” and “hands and fingers”. Children are encouraged to throw the dice twice and talk about the sexual acts that can happen using the two body parts".

AIBU to think this is deeply inappropriate and any school using Proud Trust resources needs investigating? WTF is the government doing funding pornographic material for children?

@Stampyfeet

The dice game is part of a longer sex ed programme. Long critique of it here www.transgendertrend.com/proud-trust-nothing-proud/ . The programme normalises anal sex instead of it being something that needs to be treated with caution - the majority of women don't enjoy anal sex, so why is it being pushed like this?

Speak for yourself !!

This information was circulated on Mumsnet on one of the Feminist boards two months ago. There was a link where Baroness Nicholson asked those who were concerned to contact LEAs.

I teach some sex education. I will not be using any of these materials as they seem to me inappropriate for my pupils. And to be honest the words ‘object’ and ‘anus’ together make me clench a bit! The omission of the word ‘clitoris’ is important I think, symptomatic of the mindset of those who created this ‘game’.

If I remember well, the dice lists:

• mouth
• penis
• hand and fingers
• anus
• vulva
• "an object"

No clitoris, no nipples.
... Does that sound like good sex?
what exactly is it teaching, and for whose benefit?
Does it come with a graphic description of the long term consequences of anal injuries? Don't think so (and lubrication won't prevent them: if it's too big, it's too big!)
Sex ed in my days was about avoiding STDs and pregnancy, not training to become an (anally incontinent) porn star.

There's also the fact this game is, in itself, by it's nature and focus, a sex act. It is, literally, foreplay: let's be playful, talk dirty, visualise what bit could go into what bit, explore our thoughts and feelings on the topic, and describe them to each other. In a classroom. As a group. Under the instructions of an adult. So much for consent... And so much for safeguarding.

There's a reason sex ed is typically "clinical", and not pornographic, in its language and focus. Talking about sex in a pornographic way is sex already: it turns people on (or grosses them out).
Do we want teachers and children to mutually turn each other on? (Ewwwww)
Or is the purpose to gross the kids out? And train them to ignore their own sense of disgust and personal boundaries, under peer pressure? Sounds healthy... (Not!)

Talking to your kids about sex one-to-one for 10 minutes and planning a whole lesson when you actually have to do something you can’t just sit there at the front talking of different things. That’s where the dice then comes into it you can’t just have a teacher standing there the kids have to interact in modern day education

The number of parents on this thread expressing their fears about grooming who seem to be completely oblivious to the fact
... that grooming is most likely to be carried out by a family member, and that sex education makes it more likely a child will recognise they're being groomed and raise the alarm earlier.

Stranger Danger has really screwed up three generations of parents abilities to recognise where the real danger comes from.

surely this is one resource, not a comprehensive lesson in itself?

Every lesson should be an opportunity to promote teaching about boundaries, respect and consent

However, the internet can and does already teach those things - in a more graphic way than a lesson guided by a qualified adult who has no ulterior motive other than education.

Exactly. What the internet does not teach well is boundaries. Where do you thinking PSHE teaching should focus, pushing boundaries or accepting them.

It's so important for these things to be talked about in an open and managed setting

I think most people would see the difference between a teacher talking dirty to a class of teens and talking about sex with a class of teens. One you do with someone you choose to do it with in a way that is comfortable to you, the other is not appropriate.

And yet this is exactly what the dice is doing. Instead of a conversation its an actual sex game in the class room with a power difference between the proposed and participate.

This is not what we want to be accidentally encoding into our young people.

This is part of a suite of resources teachers will use.

There’s a debate around the lack of clitoris, it definitely should be there.

And if the tampon tax is only supposed to be used for female centred resources, then that too is a debate to be had.

But the dice, in and of themselves, are just a tool to spark discussion and I don’t see an issue with that.

The fact is that teenagers are going to be engaging in anal sex whether it is covered in sex education or not. They're not going to learn about it for the first time in this game and give it a go. If they are not taught about safe practices for anal sex and other sex practices in school or at home they will 'learn' from their what their friends tell them, randoms on the internet and porn.

YADNBU

OP is it that you only want heteronormative PIV sex taught? Because you seem to have an issue with them talking about the anus.

@ChristmasCarcass

anal sex (which is being normalised to such an extent 16 year olds are presenting with anal injuries)

Sounds like more education is needed. You know most people manage it without injuring themselves?

Do "most" people have anal? I am in my 50s and never done it. In my generation it was presented as a sonewhat kinky option which would probably be quite painful for the woman at least initially and therefore should be undertaken gently, carefully and only if both of you really really wanted to.

My concern is the message that my young teen daughter might get is "it's perfectly normal, everyone does it, just use lube". Anal sex is something she should be able to opt in to if she really wants to, not something she feels pressured to do because "everyone does" or that she is made out to be frigid, boring or "vanilla" if she doesn't want to.

There is a huge gulf between "if this is something you and your partner both really want to do, here is how to do it safely and carefully" and "anal is great, so is rimming, everyone does them, here's how".

@TomNook

Still waiting to hear how many of the critics have taught sex ed.

I’ve taught sex ed to years 7-11 over many many years. Always relaxed and even enjoyable to talk factually and openly about sex and relationships. This however is a league apart, exploitative and frankly pornographic. Poor kids to be subjected to this type of abusive grooming.

I actually think that if teachers are reinforcing kinks like anal sex as being pleasurable, then they're only adding to the damage that porn has done. I'm sure they have to mention it in terms of staying safe and being healthy, but it really should not be a big focus like that document suggests. Kinks are definitely something that should be explored when a person is fully mature, not still in school.

I like anal.

So does my partner.

We don’t do it every time but it’s something we enjoy occasionally.

I don’t see the issue with it being put out there as an option.

I think it depends on how it's handled in a classroom tbh. A teacher will explain sexual activities alongside consent and boundaries. So it won't be normalising anal sex, it will be this is an option for consenting adults, these are the risks, this is how risks are minimised, etc. A scary number of secondary age children are sexually active. They should have all of the information they need to make safer choices.

This is not okay on any level. Sex ed needs to happen in an accessible way - it's not education about how to have sex per se, it's education about how to avoid pregnancy and STDs and also to ensure better understanding of consent and relationships. The actual acts themselves might be mentioned or explained, but in a clinical and informative fashion, also mentioning the attendant risks.

There's also the fact this game is, in itself, by it's nature and focus, a sex act. It is, literally, foreplay: let's be playful, talk dirty, visualise what bit could go into what bit, explore our thoughts and feelings on the topic, and describe them to each other. In a classroom. As a group. Under the instructions of an adult. So much for consent... And so much for safeguarding.

Exactly this. It's hugely inappropriate and really worrying that teachers are asked to do this. I would refuse and also complain. I would encourage parents to complain, too.

^The number of parents on this thread expressing their fears about grooming who seem to be completely oblivious to the fact
... that grooming is most likely to be carried out by a family member, and that sex education makes it more likely a child will recognise they're being groomed and raise the alarm earlier.^

This dice does the opposite. It teaches even if you are uncomfortable with something hold your nerve!

Teachers can also use the classroom to groom. Speaking as someone who saw a teacher grooming a pupil in plain site where noone draw the dots until it was waay to late.

Talking about sex with a trusted adult must be very clearly different than doing it. This game is not

Some women will enjoy anal sex. Most won't. Teenage girls are being heavily pressured to take part in sex acts that are likely to have very little pleasure for them - who does this benefit? There doesn't seem to be any indication in these sex ed resources that explains this.

I actually think that if teachers are reinforcing kinks like anal sex as being pleasurable

This is a great example of the heteronormativity I mentioned upthread. Gay kids are entitled to learn about anal sex in the same way heterosexual kids are entitled to learn about PIV sex, without it being labelled a kink.

No one has ever pressured me to have anal sex.

I fully support discussion around boundaries and consent, and would expect any teacher to include that front and centre of any sex Ed

Inappropriate..to say the least...can we not leave our kids to be kids...do parents have no say as to when to decide their children are ready for this kind of "education"

Penis has six different boxes and comes first on that chart, vagina is second to last on the chart and has two. Anus has more boxes than vagina. Actually the only category that has less boxes than vagina is hands and fingers.

Seems about right.

I have taught sex ed. And I have read more about this game.
It doesn't include any information on boundaries or consent.
It's centred round the male body and the male orgasm and doesn't even discuss as others have said, the clitoris (which my Android dictionary didn't know. Bet it knows penis. Oh yes. And testicles. Yep.).
It's just a blank "do a jigsaw puzzle with body parts" game with no context.
It will give teenage boys the opportunity to embarrass teenage girls, and tittilate themselves.
It will give teenage girls no useful knowledge at all.
How is it helpful to encourage 13 year olds to describe anal sex?
This should only be done in a context where they already have FIRM knowledge that it is not pleasurable for the majority of women, that it can be damaging, and that porn is unrealistic and degrading to women, and most of tie female porn actors are trafficked.

Here are the teachers' notes

twitter.com/charlesworth102/status/1263883667694387203?s=19

A class of 13 years olds - so I would have been 11.5, 12 then (started school early). I would have died of embarrassment. These packs look like they have been created by some over-sexed teenagers.

I have seen sexual acts mentioned in some of the packs (I had to look some up - why does a 13 year old need to know about licking someone else’s anus - and when did it get a name, and the risk of physical injury in some activities not mentioned at all?). They need to address the whole pornifocation of media and in ‘young peoples’ magazines so that kids don’t get physically hurt or coerced into activities that they don't want, or get into trouble taking photos/videos etc.

I have seen our school packs - there’s so much emphasis on ‘gender’ and trans Identity (whole separate sections/lesson packs). And it uses the c** word as if it was a legitimate term. But then it does have sections on the law, consent and safety.

@IAmFleshIAmBone being a gay man is not a “kink”. Jesus this thread is incredibly homophobic. Shall we just bring back Section 28, and have done with it?