To agree that colleagues moving out of London are doing the right thing

[disorganisedsecretsquirrel]

'Base office' is in South London. I have WFH for years so this is not about me...

Colleagues have been WFH since lockdown.. most had done at least one day a week at home for years ( because we have a sane boss ) .. then Covid happened and it became apparent to all that we had never 'needed' to be there..

Now our department (Civil Service) has closed our office. to us - to make room for those who have to see the public/ need to be in the office. So my colleagues have started to make moves.. we are a team of 16. So far, 2 have made offers on properties in Devon and Cornwall, 2 in Norfolk /Suffolk , 1 in the lakes (lucky bugger) and one to Sussex. (All previously in South London.

Our contracts have been changed to WFH (if we chose this) ..

AIBU to say that the government push to get 'everyone back in the office' does not reflect the reality of what people want.. mostly to do with the commute.. (cost of) and quality of life.. my lovely colleague going to Wales is swapping a 1 bed in Streatham for a 3 bed small holding for half the cost of her current mortgage . She has 2 kids that share a room and her and DH sleep on a sofa bed !

Well that’s fantastic for your colleague. But what about the locals of this area of wales who will have their property prices pushed up with London salaries coming to the area?

There could definitely do with some levelling of the country so it isn’t so London focused but that needs to include salaries too, not just Londoners with London salaries buying up properties in cheaper bits of the country and pricing out locals of their own areas.

Bit sad that employers have had such a distrust of WFH though that it’s taken a global pandemic to show that productivity can remain pretty good WFH.

Would be interested to see medium / long term moral and impact to culture though. I don’t think wfh is for everyone.

‘The reality of what people want’ is different for everyone though.

It sounds like your colleagues have been given a great opportunity and good on them if they’re all happy with it, but personally, I’d hate to work from home. I’m sure I’m not the only one, some people just work better in a different environment and enjoy working with other people. I don’t work in an office, but if I did and I’d been looking forward to going back only to find out that all my colleagues were no longer going to be there and no one was going to replace them, I’d be gutted!

Well it’s great for them now but what about in the future? Will they be able to progress in their careers? What if a new job comes up back in London, they won’t be able to make the move back.

We live in London...I often look online at what we could afford if we moved away. I don't even really like living in London much anymore. I'd happily move away but I'm worried as once my dc reach working age, they'll be stuck somewhere where there's not a lot of job opportunities. At least if we're in London, they'll have more freedom in terms of career

Good for them, if that's what they want. I think a lot of people find the grind of commuting into London, Manchester, Birmingham, wherever utterly grim and only do it because to do their job they previously had little choice in the matter. A lot of people would actually much rather WFH, but most companies have insisted that work is done in an office, even when it's perfectly possible to do it elsewhere.

I think this new flexibility around working could be one of the few good things that comes out of Covid. Who really wants to spend hours every week sitting (if they're lucky!) on a train or bus travelling to/from an office? Not many.

I will be doing this at some point too. I live on London borders and want to move out much further.

Yes I agree ..
to a degree. I just think that WFH should t be dictated by governments need to fuel 'big businesses paying big rents ' in London.

My DD works in City (of London) .. her office have just offered a TWENTY percent pay rise if everyone happy to continue to WFH.. because of their massive savings from giving up office lease.. and improved productivity.

Am thinking that this May level out rents in London...

.. not to mention the Green advantages of many people not burning fossil fuel going into pointless offices in the city..

There is a definite culture of 'presenteeism'(sp?) in this country... (if I can't see you working then you must be drinking wine at midday and doing fuck-all.) The reality is far from that.. without colleagues to talk to .. and a 'online monitor' our productivity has increased massively because people didn't want to loose this privilege.

I moved out of London to be closer to family after having my son; god I miss it 😕

I know there are several people where I work (in London) who want wfh to be permanent so they could do the same. Or at least only have to go in say one day a week or a few days per month.

YANBU to think there are many people like your colleagues who do not want to go back to an office full time and many not at all. The government thinks differently but seems to have been roundly criticised given how many central London government departments have so few back in the office.

Though I can imagine some people will resent Londoners moving to their part of the world, but that is nothing new.

I moved out to the remote
end of the 'middle of nowhere' .. all I
can see are sheep and one more farm house.. I will never move except in a wooden box..

I constantly think about moving away - lived i. Suburbia all my life.

Then think once you go you can't come back

If it’s in their contract and their job feels secure I don’t blame them.

I assume it’s easier to get a school place there than here (London) if they have school age dc. Pre-school age even easier.

Jobs in my industry aren’t secure enough to depend on so if you did it you may find it hard to get a new one. Not impossible, if more allow wfh.

Do you or your daughter's place of work have any vacancies?!

I'd bloody love to work from home f/t.

London salaries don't follow the job though - any additional London wieghting is removed for wfh in exchange for expenses when up to the smoke is required

I think the killer (for them) will be all these London based workers currently enjoying London based salaries will start to see wages stagnating and falling when firms realise they can recruit from the regions to WFH who are willing to work for far less money.

At the moment London firms need to pay more so staff can afford to live in London. If they open up their recruitment to WfH from anywhere, they'll suddenly get an influx of applicants from all over the UK willing to be paid local wage levels.

I think making decisions on if people 'need' to be in the office at this point is incredibly short-sighted. You're essentially making a huge change in the way people collaborate and a huge change to how cultures develop in organisations on the basis of a six-month experiment.

What about people who don't have the luxury of space to work from home permanently and maybe don't want to move to Wales? How are people going to come together to be creative? What if they want a promotion and the new team isn't happy with WFH?

I've WFH for TEN YEARS. It is not perfect, in fact in many ways it's really limiting. My flabber is actually ghasted that the civil service is moving so quickly on this. There are definitely good elements to WFH but it doesn't work for every person in every situation. It's actually quite discriminatory to expect that it will.

I think this is fantastic OP. I'm not ready to leave London yet but I love that government departments are treating staff like adults. I work for a big company and already worked from home 3 days a week. It makes so much more sense.

You assume that everyone's dream is living in the countryside not London. I think you're quite wrong there.

My DD works in City (of London) .. her office have just offered a TWENTY percent pay rise if everyone happy to continue to WFH.. because of their massive savings from giving up office lease.. and improved productivity.

^

Need me a bit of this in my life!

they'll suddenly get an influx of applicants from all over the UK willing to be paid local wage levels.

^^

Good point. 3 bed in Blackburn on a Canary Wharf salary

Civil service working from home - isn’t that going against the advice issued by boris this week that we all need to get back to the office?

The danger of wfh forever more is how do people develop their careers especially those just starting out. A lot of experience is gained by sitting with people, listening to them and what is going on around you, going for lunch with colleagues and getting to know them.

All these relationships and experiences will be lost when people’s work environment becomes the four walls of a bedroom.

I think this will be a massive detriment to both personal development and organisational performance if this becomes the norm

Wages are not that simple.. If you decide to go for a WFH salary , then your Inner London wage goes to 'national' on 'marktime' .. which means it says the same until pay rises catch up... but on the basis that 3x the accommodation plus land...is half the mortgage.. then you are still a winner less the commuter hassle.. not to mention the quality of life of having chickens 🐔and time with your children...

I get this. As some who has been able to do this for many years.. I am super happy for my colleague with young children.

As
For those who worry about kids employment. Who says that they can't also do this. ?
It makes me wonder why we don't (mostly ) do this when we can ?