To agree that colleagues moving out of London are doing the right thing

[disorganisedsecretsquirrel]

'Base office' is in South London. I have WFH for years so this is not about me...

Colleagues have been WFH since lockdown.. most had done at least one day a week at home for years ( because we have a sane boss ) .. then Covid happened and it became apparent to all that we had never 'needed' to be there..

Now our department (Civil Service) has closed our office. to us - to make room for those who have to see the public/ need to be in the office. So my colleagues have started to make moves.. we are a team of 16. So far, 2 have made offers on properties in Devon and Cornwall, 2 in Norfolk /Suffolk , 1 in the lakes (lucky bugger) and one to Sussex. (All previously in South London.

Our contracts have been changed to WFH (if we chose this) ..

AIBU to say that the government push to get 'everyone back in the office' does not reflect the reality of what people want.. mostly to do with the commute.. (cost of) and quality of life.. my lovely colleague going to Wales is swapping a 1 bed in Streatham for a 3 bed small holding for half the cost of her current mortgage . She has 2 kids that share a room and her and DH sleep on a sofa bed !

New York is also one of the most visited cities and they openly admit they need businesses and the wealthy to return. So what makes us different?

Some theatres have already permanently closed. How can they keep going with no ticket sales? They have no income.

theconversation.com/coronavirus-theatres-are-already-closing-the-uk-government-needs-to-act-now-141796

Theatres are already closing and the ones still viable are supported by government money. How long do you think this is going to last?

Yes and a good number of those 9 million won’t have jobs so they won’t be out spending

I do think NY has other problems driving the rich away, murders are up 35% & shooting incidents are up 87% (although it's more complex than Trump suggests).

The city may change/evolve. But if you have children in schools you may feel not able to uproot them at this time.

The benefits may be that hotel accommodation improves I cannot say I am impressed when visiting at the price and quality of the offerings.

Will crime rise??

I do think we are in for a rocky time, unemployment will rise & the papers are discussing all sorts of tax hikes

Although I think tax hikes were coming regardless of Covid.

@Proudboomer

Yes and a good number of those 9 million won’t have jobs so they won’t be out spending

How do you work that out?

@Proudboomer

If London never comes back to even 50% of what it was then a lot of these so called advantages of living in London will go. The transport system that carries these workers around London will be cut. No more cheap travel 24 hours a day. You will have to get used to the crappy service that the rest of the country gets. The arts won’t survive. Everything from comedy clubs to the west end will be moth balled. Hotels catering for the business gone Along with those who offer facilities for business conferences and other corporal events. Black cabs and ubers gone as no business Museums, galleries and tourist attractions gone or running on very reduced hours as no visitors as who wants to visit a capital city that is dead. And all these before you start thinking about coffee shops, restaurants, shops and other small businesses. You can’t have a nation that wfh and still have London as it used to be to pop back to to enjoy. No weekend in London to see a show, no afternoon at the natural history museum, no trip to take a boat down the Thames.

This country is blindly walking into a desert thinking how great wfh is going to be but forgetting everything that will be lost and it is not just us New York’s governor Andrew Cuomo has been begging businessmen to come back for weeks.

What a load of rubbish!

Covid and other life choices aside - as one gets older and DCs get older London with decent public transport and facilities looks more and more attractive. But each to their own

This really is a barmy situation, making hugely important decisions on the results of an experiment that has not been running for 6 months yet.
We moved out of London only after we retired. For the first two years I really missed the 'buzz'.
Moving beyond Milton Keynes, Chelmsford or Basingstoke will prevent you moving back if career changes.

@Proudboomer

I agree within 2 years London will be a wasteland. Commercial property will be empty and even if you don’t live and work in London there is a good chance your pension pot is invested in commercial property.

I don’t live or work in London neither do I have a nice pension pot to protect so I have no skin in the game at all but I am concerned for the thousands of low paid workers who’s jobs are going to disappear. Most wont be able to retrain or move away so what are they going to do?

Were you concerned about the thousands of low paid workers out in the regions whose jobs disappeared in the 80s and 90s who couldn't retrain or move away and are now stuck on run down towns?

I’m a very live for today person, but I’d hang on and see how things pan out.
Without doubt some firms will encourage ‘permanent’ WFH to save money.
But when it becomes financially attractive to have everyone back, that’s what will happen.
And they won’t give a shit about people who moved.

@formerbabe

We live in London...I often look online at what we could afford if we moved away. I don't even really like living in London much anymore. I'd happily move away but I'm worried as once my dc reach working age, they'll be stuck somewhere where there's not a lot of job opportunities. At least if we're in London, they'll have more freedom in terms of career

I think this is a reasonable consideration. However, if you move well your kids would grow up somewhere where work might be available and they could better afford a house. Think the East of England or the North West. I find ti scary that if one of my DCs wanted to be a midwife or a paramedic they might never be able to afford to buy a house if they lived in London. This was one reason we moved out some years ago.

What gov want is for people to spend money, hence eat out to helping, hence encouraging unnecessary activities with the mitigation of a mask etc. I can't see the exit strategy. No chance of eradicating, half of people don't want a vaccine, no evidence that extra medical staff are being trained up. Just masks and local lockdown. Pointless.

But gov don't want to spend billions keeping people at home. They've given everyone the fear of going out now they are pushing new rules to make sure money is spent. No, few people need to be in an office. But how will people be encouraged to spend spare money if they live rurally or work from home if they arent working in a city centre dropping money on lunch and a new jacket to cheer themselves up.

I honestly can’t imagine anything more bleak than spending the rest of my life on zoom alone in a home office. The horror!

People moving hundreds of miles to WFH full time permanently based on a 6 month crisis are bonkers.

The Covid crises has been going on for about 6 months. If your employer is happy to make such a major decision as closing one of their offices and telling everyone to WFH full time forever based on 6 months then they could just as easily change their mind 6 months later. What if as an incentive to get business back into city centres, Rishi Sunak announces subsidies for renting offices with a rent freeze for 5 years and your organisation decides to take it up expecting you to be in the office 3 days a week? What happens to the employee who moved to Wales? They’d probably have to resign then look for a new local job in a place with less opportunities.

I genuinely can’t understand people who make massive decisions based on an unprecedented situation that hasn’t been going on for that long and could be over this time next year. It’s very short term thinking but then again I guess some people are like this anyway, rushing into things, not thinking about the risks and potential consequences then wondering why it didn’t work out afterwards.

People moving hundreds of miles to WFH full time permanently based on a 6 month crisis are bonkers.

Very few people will take such extreme measures so quickly though. Most people are sensible and know that societal change takes years so will stay where they are (home and workplace) until they're confident about where the pendulum is going to end up, rather than take a knee jerk reaction this soon.

I know people who have already moved. The companies they work for have introduced WFH permanently, so they have sold their small London flat, taken advantage of the stamp duty changes, and bought a house, not in very rural places, but in other towns or small cities.

daisypond that's fair enough if they plan on staying with the same company until retirement, but may not be so great if they ever plan to change jobs (or if the original company goes under).

@ChristmasCarcass

daisypond that's fair enough if they plan on staying with the same company until retirement, but may not be so great if they ever plan to change jobs (or if the original company goes under).

That is a danger, but one, for example, is in the civil service with lots of room to progress still, and not likely to close down. The other has picked a town where they can, if need be, get back to London regularly, where they can still do their freelance side job.

Outer London and the commuter belt are very buoyant at the moment. I think that’s where most people moving out of smaller, more central properties are going. Not small holdings in Wales.

I agree with pp,all the inner city wealthier people(because properties in less populated areas cheaper than inner cities ,not personal wealth necessarily)are going to buy up rural properties pushing up the prices for local people.Making it harder for youngsters to get on the property ladder.
But,we all want the best for our families so I can understand why they do it and it's nowhere near as bad as all the second homers buying up village cottages then hardly using them thereby killing off community life.the me.me.me. Mentality.

‘Outer London and the commuter belt are very buoyant at the moment. I think that’s where most people moving out of smaller, more central properties are going. Not small holdings in Wales.’

This actually sounds more sensible. I can see why if you think you’ll be working in the office less in the long term say 3 days a week, that it would make sense to move from a flat in zone 1/2 to a house in zones 3-5. Moving to Wales based on a promise from one employer is barmy as they could just as easily and quickly reverse their decision and they won’t give a shit about the fact you’ve moved so far away from work, it won’t be their problem.