To agree that colleagues moving out of London are doing the right thing

[disorganisedsecretsquirrel]

'Base office' is in South London. I have WFH for years so this is not about me...

Colleagues have been WFH since lockdown.. most had done at least one day a week at home for years ( because we have a sane boss ) .. then Covid happened and it became apparent to all that we had never 'needed' to be there..

Now our department (Civil Service) has closed our office. to us - to make room for those who have to see the public/ need to be in the office. So my colleagues have started to make moves.. we are a team of 16. So far, 2 have made offers on properties in Devon and Cornwall, 2 in Norfolk /Suffolk , 1 in the lakes (lucky bugger) and one to Sussex. (All previously in South London.

Our contracts have been changed to WFH (if we chose this) ..

AIBU to say that the government push to get 'everyone back in the office' does not reflect the reality of what people want.. mostly to do with the commute.. (cost of) and quality of life.. my lovely colleague going to Wales is swapping a 1 bed in Streatham for a 3 bed small holding for half the cost of her current mortgage . She has 2 kids that share a room and her and DH sleep on a sofa bed !

@nicebreeze

I didn’t say that? I said some people which means, well not everyone. Not sure why you’re reading my post wrongly, I don’t care where people moved to - all I said was it wasn’t for Everyone.

the government push to get 'everyone back in the office' does not reflect the reality of what people want
people want what is best for themselves, the government want what's best for the government and their rich friends
'theyworkforyou' is BS, government pretends to act in the interests of the people but actually it's efforts are designed to enrich themselves on the backs of the people

There are plenty of people that do want to get back into the office and I think there will be plenty of companies that will want it too. Somebody moving right now before we know everything is going to change could be disadvantaging themselves if they are made redundant or want to change jobs in the future.

This is so out of step with what I hear amongst my friends. I living in London but am currently mostly SAHM, late 40s (although now do about 4 months project work a year) but amongst my friends, all also 40s people seem desperate to get back INTO the office! Public transport seems to be the main bug bear but all I hear at the moment is how they hate working from home and are bored.

@Mamimawr

I live in north west Wales and house prices have shot up. Quite a few areas were out of reach of local incomes before COVID, it seems to have worsened significantly.

I'm worried that my children will never be able to buy a house in this area and I'm also very worried about the threat to the Welsh language.

I live in North West Wales I think that those relocating do not realise that their children will be taught in welsh so they will need to learn it.

@Aweebawbee

Companies will be quick to realise that they are not confined to recruiting in the UK. People might be willing to work for less, even in developed english-speaking countries. We're not just talking about call centres in India. If WFH is proven to be viable, it will become a global job market for many sectors.

This my DS company are now outsourcing to Asia parts of projects in architecture.

The advantage is if you have family back in the north, south, wales, scotland. You can move back to be near them with all the support that offers. The downside moving on applying for another job.

The group of young people that has suffered most because of house price rises is young Londoners. We hear so much of young people being priced out of Cornwall or popular holiday destinations as if they are the only ones. I saw a one bedroom one reception (open plan kitchen/diner/living room) flat being advertised on my local FB group for £1500 per week just recently. In Peckham.

If London never comes back to even 50% of what it was then a lot of these so called advantages of living in London will go.
The transport system that carries these workers around London will be cut. No more cheap travel 24 hours a day. You will have to get used to the crappy service that the rest of the country gets.
The arts won’t survive. Everything from comedy clubs to the west end will be moth balled.
Hotels catering for the business gone Along with those who offer facilities for business conferences and other corporal events.
Black cabs and ubers gone as no business
Museums, galleries and tourist attractions gone or running on very reduced hours as no visitors as who wants to visit a capital city that is dead.
And all these before you start thinking about coffee shops, restaurants, shops and other small businesses.
You can’t have a nation that wfh and still have London as it used to be to pop back to to enjoy. No weekend in London to see a show, no afternoon at the natural history museum, no trip to take a boat down the Thames.

This country is blindly walking into a desert thinking how great wfh is going to be but forgetting everything that will be lost and it is not just us New York’s governor Andrew Cuomo has been begging businessmen to come back for weeks.

Well wfh from a remote rural location isn’t always a bundle of laughs. The recent lightening storms killed our WiFi router and the first BT technician didn’t even turn up.

@Proudboomer I do think there is a question whether London will look the same however Andrew Cuomo has been begging wealthy New Yorkers to come back from their second homes, which is kind of the problem.

www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/aug/29/new-york-not-dead-coronavirus-pandemic-problems

NY, like London is not working for many people which is one reason why so many are keen to wfh.

Proudboomer I have wondered how close we are to a bad situation, as you describe. A lot of posters talk about Cons caring about corporate leases etc but perhaps running the figures it’s more stark than that.

Having said that, I do think most sectors need a London base still if they did before and will use it, just differently, when threat passes.

I also think companies need to do more than lip service to work life balance and have been forced to make a change that many wanted. It’s a bit like retail realising they have to be better to be a draw.

@Proudboomer

If London never comes back to even 50% of what it was then a lot of these so called advantages of living in London will go. The transport system that carries these workers around London will be cut. No more cheap travel 24 hours a day. You will have to get used to the crappy service that the rest of the country gets. The arts won’t survive. Everything from comedy clubs to the west end will be moth balled. Hotels catering for the business gone Along with those who offer facilities for business conferences and other corporal events. Black cabs and ubers gone as no business Museums, galleries and tourist attractions gone or running on very reduced hours as no visitors as who wants to visit a capital city that is dead. And all these before you start thinking about coffee shops, restaurants, shops and other small businesses. You can’t have a nation that wfh and still have London as it used to be to pop back to to enjoy. No weekend in London to see a show, no afternoon at the natural history museum, no trip to take a boat down the Thames.

This country is blindly walking into a desert thinking how great wfh is going to be but forgetting everything that will be lost and it is not just us New York’s governor Andrew Cuomo has been begging businessmen to come back for weeks.

How far ahead are you projecting?! It'll be two years at most, whichever way this virus pans out. Bet you anything.

But lots of those institutions will struggle to survive 2 years.

@Proudboomer

If London never comes back to even 50% of what it was then a lot of these so called advantages of living in London will go. The transport system that carries these workers around London will be cut. No more cheap travel 24 hours a day. You will have to get used to the crappy service that the rest of the country gets. The arts won’t survive. Everything from comedy clubs to the west end will be moth balled. Hotels catering for the business gone Along with those who offer facilities for business conferences and other corporal events. Black cabs and ubers gone as no business Museums, galleries and tourist attractions gone or running on very reduced hours as no visitors as who wants to visit a capital city that is dead. And all these before you start thinking about coffee shops, restaurants, shops and other small businesses. You can’t have a nation that wfh and still have London as it used to be to pop back to to enjoy. No weekend in London to see a show, no afternoon at the natural history museum, no trip to take a boat down the Thames.

This country is blindly walking into a desert thinking how great wfh is going to be but forgetting everything that will be lost and it is not just us New York’s governor Andrew Cuomo has been begging businessmen to come back for weeks.

Considering most people in the country don't live nor work in London, I don't think there'll be too many people bemoaning it's potential demise. The vast majority live perfectly normally without the London lifestyle. Yes, I have no doubt that Londoners may well be the losers, but that just evens up the country and benefits the majority outside London who've suffered from decades of London centricity.

@user1497207191 plenty of "Londoners" have suffered by its centricity too eg the ones who can't afford housing or who are in social housing but shipped out.

Having said that, I do think most sectors need a London base still if they did before and will use it, just differently, when threat passes.

Why, though? The company I work for is closing all its UK offices, not just in London, its Europe offices, US offices, etc. All staff have to work from home. Some of this was happening before the pandemic, but the lockdown has accelerated it. The “office” concept isn’t going to exist. It may be that in a few years it changes back again, perhaps in a smaller, modified form, but this is it for now.

Even with many people moving out, there will still be several million left + London is one of the most visited tourist destinations left. I really don’t think we’re at any remote risk of theatres or other venues closing down (not the vast majority anyway) and London becoming a wasteland.

*one of the most visited destinations in the world

London will not be closing down anytime soon, what hyperbolic nonsense.

Daisy I know which is why I’m interested in which sector you are in, as it would help me understand how you are doing it wrt clients.

I only know my sector well, but yes it will still be important to have a permanent London space for meetings and actually for teams to meet. But not every day, granted.

Clients will not want zoom meetings when this has passed. They are already starting to come in for f2f. Company has really handy bump devices for SD.

I agree within 2 years London will be a wasteland. Commercial property will be empty and even if you don’t live and work in London there is a good chance your pension pot is invested in commercial property.

I don’t live or work in London neither do I have a nice pension pot to protect so I have no skin in the game at all but I am concerned for the thousands of low paid workers who’s jobs are going to disappear. Most wont be able to retrain or move away so what are they going to do?

I really don’t think London will be a wasteland in two years.

I really don’t think we’re at any remote risk of theatres or other venues closing down

The theatre world is in dire straits. Huge numbers of staff have lost their jobs. Even major venues like the Albert Hall, the Opera House, Sadler’s Wells etc might not recover. They are still not allowed to open yet. Many are looking at perhaps next spring, and in smaller venues- if they can hold on that long.

@Proudboomer

I agree within 2 years London will be a wasteland. Commercial property will be empty and even if you don’t live and work in London there is a good chance your pension pot is invested in commercial property.

I don’t live or work in London neither do I have a nice pension pot to protect so I have no skin in the game at all but I am concerned for the thousands of low paid workers who’s jobs are going to disappear. Most wont be able to retrain or move away so what are they going to do?

Complete tosh. You do know it's a city of 9 million people, right?