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Original poster

To expect graduate to get a job whilst applying for ‘the perfect’ job?

324 replies

Rosehip345 · 24/08/2020 13:30

Please settle a disagreement between myself and my brother.

DN back from uni having graduated and done well in chosen (and fairly select and over subscribed) field.
Her plan with DB’s approval is to live at home for a year whilst applying for jobs, so far she has had three interviews and not got any.
They both disagree with me that she should get any job or an internship etc in the interim whilst continuing to apply for ‘the perfect job’.

My kids are very young so I don’t have any experience of this yet but I’d imagine I’d be telling them to get some life experience and more relevant experience around the subject whilst still applying, surely that’d make them seem more appealing than just staying at home doing nothing for year?

OP posts:
BubblyBluePebbles · 25/08/2020 00:42

Agree 100%
Our DD is finished uni two years ago. Has continued to work in 'non-dream job' retail roles during the last two years, whilst also travelling the World. DD returned from her last trip in Feb and we encouraged her to snap up a temp night shift supermarket job in March. DD has just left packing supermarket shelves for an apprentice style job where she can exercise her dream job skills. DD also recently started an online business with a friend whilst working nights.
All of our DC are told 'We're all grafters in this house'.

Oliversmumsarmy · 25/08/2020 01:36

In my career, most employers heavily discriminate against those with irelevant or only somewhat relevant experience and value academics more highly. So she would be better off not working and putting in real effort in the applications (assuming she has an Oxbridge or London degree and a high 2:1

So what happens to those who can’t afford to be without work for a year?

ZombieFan · 25/08/2020 01:47

If someone has spent 3 years partying getting a degree then they should be entitled to well paid graduate jobs. I dont understand why 'Unions' are not emplying them?

Its not fair to ask them to do 'manual labour' and its not fair to ask them to take on student loans unless they are in fulfilling/meaningful jobs.

Frazzled13 · 25/08/2020 06:31

In my career, most employers heavily discriminate against those with irelevant or only somewhat relevant experience and value academics more highly.

Why on earth would you discriminate against someone who did a bit of waitressing while applying for a job in your particular field? I can understand some people not caring about previous work experience but what possible negatives can there be from someone having a part time job to pay some uni bills or whatever.

Grumpsy · 25/08/2020 06:47

its not fair to ask them to do 'manual labour' and its not fair to ask them to take on student loans unless they are in fulfilling/meaningful jobs.

Usually if they’re not in fulfilling/meaningful jobs they won’t hit the earning threshold to pay their student loan back.

Plus define fulfilling/meaningful. A graduate role is still an entry level position. I’d expect a graduate to be able to do menial work as well as the more interesting stuff. I don’t expect someone who thinks they’re too good to take minutes, or complete basic admin work. I expect them to be able to recognise that while they may be taking minutes, the reason they are doing it may be to observe more senior discussions and learn.

Nobody is entitled to any particular job based on education alone in my view. There is so much more to hiring people than just their grades.

Yearinyearout · 25/08/2020 06:55

Totally agree with you OP.

Agreed, it's not the best time to be job hunting, but certainly local to me there are jobs being advertised. Extra jobs in the pubs because they are doing table service, jobs in the supermarkets, cleaning jobs. Nothing to stop your niece trying to get something part time or voluntary whilst she looks for her perfect job.

My own DS signed up with a temp agency when he had a gap year, he ended up doing unsociable shifts in a variety of manual jobs that plenty on this thread would turn their noses up at, and it did him the world of good. He has a full and varied CV to support his academic qualifications.

Why don't you show them this thread?

Frazzled13 · 25/08/2020 07:06

If the internship is something she can do financially, she's foolish to turn it down, especially in this current climate.
Out of interest, you say she's been offered the internship, why did she apply and interview for it if she didn't want to accept?

Kisskiss · 25/08/2020 07:26

@GrumpyHoonMain
Actually I had to interview loads of incoming summer / graduate analysts for my ibank and pretty much every single CV shortlisted for interviews had internship experience.. so, I would agree with what @billy1966 said above. You are likely to not even make it to interview stage( certainly not for a front office role) without any work experience ..
an internship is not permanent anyway, there’s no harm doing one ( especially if paid, in a somewhat relevant field).. you’re likely to learn something useful, which is better than sitting around doing nothing. Meanwhile she can keep applying for her dream job, with a beefed up cv. Gaps in CVs are hard to explain and you can’t even say you were ‘travelling’ because well,covid

Rewis · 25/08/2020 07:27

In my career, most employers heavily discriminate against those with irelevant or only somewhat relevant experience and value academics more highly

I know universities (specific fields) that tell graduates to not put McJobs on their cv since it will hold them back. That doesnt mean that you cannot do that job to earn money and experience. It's just that it doesn't go in to the CV

GreekOddess · 25/08/2020 07:30

The difficulty is the basic jobs (do they even exist at the moment?!) want commitment from people they don't want someone who may be with them a matter of weeks. It's also very difficult to take time off for interviews when you are in a permanent role.

nestisflown · 25/08/2020 07:34

In my career, most employers heavily discriminate against those with irelevant or only somewhat relevant experience and value academics more highly.

@WhereamI88 well that’s discrimination then- you might want to help change that. Often people working low level jobs don’t have mummy or daddy to support them sitting at home making applications or studying for extra degrees. And have you ever thought that those who didn’t have to work 2/3 jobs to make ends meet during university have more capacity to focus on getting better grades? Everything should be weighted carefully to ensure you aren’t simply discriminating against the poor/ less wealthy.

Original poster
Rosehip345 · 25/08/2020 07:37

Still intrigued by those who say in their career that a year should be left for job searching. What careers are you in please because myself and quite a few others would obviously be doing our children a disservice by suggesting other work/work experience

OP posts:
Original poster
Rosehip345 · 25/08/2020 07:39

Also I have no intention of showing them this thread, it’s none of my business what they choose to do, they made it quite clear they didn’t actually want my opinion.

No idea why she applied for the internship, it hasn’t been declined yet, she just intends to.

OP posts:
nestisflown · 25/08/2020 07:43

I know universities (specific fields) that tell graduates to not put McJobs on their cv since it will hold them back. That doesnt mean that you cannot do that job to earn money and experience. It's just that it doesn't go in to the CV

@Rewis
Again, that’s discrimination. If those McJobs are how the student spent their spare time at university and post university then that prejudices them to leave it out of their CV. Wealthier students get to put time consuming extra curriculars and summer travel/volunteer work to explain how they are spending their time. Leaving out a 30 hour a week “McJob” will make a less wealthy student’s CV look empty in comparison.

The blame and shame shouldn’t be shifted to students for working a McJob. The employers need to look seriously at practices which mean they are discriminating against those that are less wealthy- looking down on jobs needed to afford university is one of those unsavoury practices. If they find a way to value the variety of work experiences and backgrounds they might find that they don’t only end up predominantly hiring privately educated graduates.

FuckwitMcGee · 25/08/2020 07:44

@Iwonder08 I have a first class degree and work in retail, having graduated in a recession. Don't be such a snob.

LonginesPrime · 25/08/2020 07:59

Still intrigued by those who say in their career that a year should be left for job searching. What careers are you in please because myself and quite a few others would obviously be doing our children a disservice by suggesting other work/work experience

It's changing, OP, so the industries rife with nepotism and that exclude applicants who can't afford to do an unpaid/low-paid internship won't be doing that for much longer - nothing personal but I hope your DC don't have the opportunity to benefit from these practices as it would mean progress toward equality had stalled again!

There are lots of employers in the arts like this, but employment laws, union activism, social media and awareness on the part of applicants mean it's harder for employers to continue to get away with it.

You see stories in the trade press all the time calling out this stuff, and even the old-school bosses at big companies who still recruit like this are reined in by HR and many of their subordinates these days as people understand what "they have irrelevant experience" for an entry level position really means.

It used to be like that in law and the city but those industries are so heavily regulated (and are desperate to rebuild/maintain reputations of decent conduct since the 2008 crash) that they've been overhauling all of that over the past 10 years.

Iwonder08 · 25/08/2020 08:14

@fuckwitMcGee..have nothing to do with being a snob, just being practical.
If a young graduate is aiming for career in the city in either law or finance the experience working in a supermarket after getting a degree rather than part time job on holiday etc will not be considered positive. It is a highly competitive environment and the young person would be considered not ambitious enough for these kind of jobs.
If his/her degree is in a serious science field it would be even worse.
I mentioned in my post that the above is applicable only to a very academic person with a degree from a respectable university. I am not talking about all the graduates

FuckwitMcGee · 25/08/2020 08:18

Okay, not falling for this obvious baiting. Over and out.

nestisflown · 25/08/2020 08:20

@Iwonder08 you obviously know nothing about these industries- me and 2 of my siblings work in law/finance (and have academic degrees from respectable universities whatever that shit means)... and we have waitressing/McDonald’s endless retail jobs between us. Luckily our industries are live to people like you and looking down on any job is gross. What do you think your precious child will be doing in their training contract/ first graduate finance position? They’ll be doing the crap, menial tasks that we all have to get through. And an attitude that sees certain jobs as beneath them won’t last long in these environments.

KetoPenguin · 25/08/2020 08:24

I agree she should have taken the internship as that would be perfect and I don't understand why she didn't tbh. I do think that if they have the money to support her some voluntary work in the right sector (if it's available) might be better than an unrelated low wage job.

rainyinscotland · 25/08/2020 08:34

What's a "high 2.1" anyway? Don't you either get a 2.1 or not get a 2.1?
And why the snobbery about Oxbridge and London universities? Do employers see them so differently from the rest of the Russell Group, for example?

LonginesPrime · 25/08/2020 08:59

If a young graduate is aiming for career in the city in either law or finance the experience working in a supermarket after getting a degree rather than part time job on holiday etc will not be considered positive. It is a highly competitive environment and the young person would be considered not ambitious enough for these kind of jobs

What?

Maybe if you're taking about boutique PE firms or tiny law firms, but recruiters at top city law firms don't think like that anymore!

Graffitiqueen · 25/08/2020 09:03

She'd be off her head not to take the internship in the current climate.

Graciebobcat · 25/08/2020 09:07

If she's had three interviews she has got pretty close and will probably get a job soon. With about 200 people applying for very job though it would be hard to get even a basic role though. The more basic the job the more people apply.

LonginesPrime · 25/08/2020 09:08

She'd be off her head not to take the internship in the current climate.

It's part-time and she'd have to move to London and cover her own living costs.

I don't think it's madness not to want to do that - it's one thing her parents letting her live at home rent free if they're happy with that, but funding separate accommodation in London is a completely different situation.