To expect graduate to get a job whilst applying for ‘the perfect’ job?

[Rosehip345]

Please settle a disagreement between myself and my brother.

DN back from uni having graduated and done well in chosen (and fairly select and over subscribed) field.
Her plan with DB’s approval is to live at home for a year whilst applying for jobs, so far she has had three interviews and not got any.
They both disagree with me that she should get any job or an internship etc in the interim whilst continuing to apply for ‘the perfect job’.

My kids are very young so I don’t have any experience of this yet but I’d imagine I’d be telling them to get some life experience and more relevant experience around the subject whilst still applying, surely that’d make them seem more appealing than just staying at home doing nothing for year?

@Iwonder08
It’s the OP’s business as she was asked her opinion.
Your response shows how utterly naive you are.
My daughter took a low paid position straight after gaining her honours degree as there weren’t any positions vacant in her field and she wanted to earn something.
She has gained valuable experience in dealing with the public , organisational skills, proved her worth in working within a team and so much more.
She took this opportunity to fund her Master’s degree .
During this time she has started paying into a local government pension scheme and has built up a savings account.
What would your lazy child accomplish?

My daughter has a full CV.
What would your child be able to answer when asked “ there’s a gap in your CV, what did you do during that time? “

You sound like one of THOSE parents.

OP, I’m sorry that you keep being told that it’s none of your business, given that you were asked your opinion in the first place.
And you were right in your opinion . Yes it’s not easy right now but it’s important to show a work ethic.

OP, I know you are right and you only gave your opinion to them because they asked but I'm not sure I would have bothered to give an honest reply really. It makes no odds to you what goes on in their family. The girl sounds bright and hardworking so I'm sure she will be ok one way or another. Surely you don't won't to the a disapproving Auntie! I'm an Auntie and all my nieces and nephews think I'm great! I didn't let them misbehave if I was watching them but basically I left the parenting to the parents and I focused on being positive and encouraging.

It sounds like you may have given your opinion in a bit of a negative and judgey way. Maybe that's just how it comes across on this thread though.

I hire my own people too and specifically hire grads. I can’t believe how shortsighted some people are on here - the whole point of taking grads on a scheme is that you will give them the experience they need. It is very common to hire grads straight from uni in markets where working away from the home just isn’t done (eg India).

I have a lot of cvs, similar grades, equally impressive academics... I’m not prepared to waste 2 months interviewing every one (nor, frankly do I have the luxury), I’m sorry but billy who graduated over a year ago and hasn’t done anything since, you won’t be getting the interview unless something else on your cv jumps out. Harsh, maybe. But so is life.

I understand your sentiment but I think you underestimate just how difficult it is to land even a part-time low paid job nowadays. The application process for these roles can often take a couple of months themselves.

Obviously not working at all for a year will look bad, but situations change and it ends up being a case of taking what you can get. After three months or so she may be more keen to take on any role.

I have a versatile degree and applied only for roles which required a degree. The roles I applied for were far from my dream job, but i felt I had enough options to avoid having to flip burgers. It took a couple of months but I built up steam, perfected my interview technique and gained useful experience in selling myself to those hiring.

Just because she's not applying to stack shelves doesn't mean she's waiting for the perfect job. If she's already been invited to three interviews she must be doing something right, and having applied to at least three roles indicates she's not being overly fussy at all.

@ItsIslandTime

Tbh I’m not particularly fussed about being the fun auntie etc, if I asked someone their opinion I’d want to know it or I wouldn’t bother asking.
It probably comes across worse in this thread as it really irritated me that I was called uneducated and naive, but I genuinely wrote the thread as if I’m wrong I’d like to know before I send my own kids down a misguided path.

@Runningjump the specific job title was their words not mine, it is only this role that has been applied for.
I personally believed doing something alongside applying was simply better than nothing, whether that be stacking shelves, doing relevant work experience, doing the internship (that she has been offered), volunteering.....literally anything that means she’ll get out of bed prior to noon and have something more on the CV than a year gap.

If I were the parent of a young graduate, if money were not a problem and I could support DC, I'd advise and support DC for an internship in the relevant field in the first place (plus maybe some volunteering in a relevant or related field). If no internship, I would advice DC to do some volunteering or part time work + more training - there are post grad degrees or courses, free courses in programming, TESOL, language courses. This for a limited amount of time, then job-hunting should be more extensive and maybe not limit only to "the dream job"

Seems a bit mad not to have taken the internship - but why is it any of your business? It's for your niece to decide and her parents as they will be supporting her.

I agree having a year gap needs to be avoided, and she should have taken the internship if she could have afforded to live in London on that wage.

However, I still think she has time, and anything up to around six months of trying to find some direction after university isn't too much of a worry, but i would encourage her to take and apply to anything if she hasn't been successful by December.

I have a colleague who took a part-time job after graduating which they quit so they could spend more time applying for the types of role they wanted. Not saying I agree with it but it didn't stop them from being hired.

Why are you naive? I think they are (plus overly indulgent and babying her)

I interview people at work and l cringe big time when l get a CV with no work experience. We had an application last month from someone who has been to Oxbridge but never had a job. We didn’t even interview them It would be too much like hard work conditioning people to the world of work and training them on the job. Plus she had demonstrated no working as a team, making autonomous independent decisions etc

In my career, most employers heavily discriminate against those with irelevant or only somewhat relevant experience and value academics more highly. So she would be better off not working and putting in real effort in the applications (assuming she has an Oxbridge or London degree and a high 2:1).

@WhereamI88 That’s really interesting what is your career?

A paid internship in her field she should grab. The connections she will make will help.

I don't think you're the one being ridiculous and naive op.

I would give my kids until the end of September (thus 3 month from finishing) then they apply for any job

In the past I might have agreed with you, however having then done exactly that – naively taken a 'temporary' FT job while applying for realistic and decent long term graduate roles in line with my qualifications and experience – I now disagree. I signed on initially out of uni and in hindsight should have given it a couple of months at least to focus on the type of jobs I was interested in and getting interviews for. I decided instead to go straight into a dead end job while applying for long term roles and got stuck there with a 3+ hour round commute, no time, money or energy to keep looking for other stuff. Then when I got interviews they were confused and asked why I was considering a career change – I was working in a completely different field. It put me back by years.

This had not been my experience years before, pre-uni, when there seemed to be more roles about and I was able to move from a manual factory job (post-A-levels) into a decent, unrelated office role with relative ease.

Once you're in a FT job it becomes so much more difficult to keep applying and interviewing for suitable roles, and nowadays it is much harder to change course than in the past. That first role sets the course for the trajectory of your career. Graduate schemes, etc. can be a few months months doing rounds of applications and interviews for a number of companies, with lots of prep involved. If she has the means to focus on applications then good for her. I would suggest to your brother that she perhaps take a PT role in the meantime to keep her in a routine and maintain her soft skills – it is easy to lose focus and confidence if you're not in work/education of some sort.

Best of luck to her!

@Akire

It can be catch 22, plenty of graduates apply for “basic jobs” and wonder why they don’t get any replies. Everyone knows they want a proper job in their field and don’t want waste your time employing and training them knowing in weeks or months they will be gone.

But I agree if they volunteer it shows some work ethic and on the job skills. Having nothing on C V for a year or longer, while being supported by parents for a fit young person seems a waste.

That's what temp work is for. I spent a Christmas working for Royal Mail as a casual, then joined the warehouse in Legoland Windsor. Christmas retail work won't be far away now.

I think it’s a balance. In my experience graduates with relevant sector/ specialism internships and volunteer work did the best. My jobs at McDonalds Etc, while they helped me pay my uni bills, did not lead me to getting any graduate jobs. It was the free internship I did that led to a job offer.

Which sucks because relevant internships tend to be the preserve of the rich and the only way I could afford to do mine was by sofa crashing with a sibling who was studying in London at the time. Otherwise could never have completed 4 weeks unpaid in London. Used up my small savings from my 2 jobs to afford food and travel during the internship. Something needs to change to make careers more accessible to those that aren’t wealthy but I don’t know what.

Agree with you recent message Rosehip :

I personally believed doing something alongside applying was simply better than nothing, whether that be stacking shelves, doing relevant work experience, doing the internship (that she has been offered), volunteering.....literally anything that means she’ll get out of bed prior to noon and have something more on the CV than a year gap.

Think I missed that bit in the original post, but if she's been offered an internship in that field and she can afford to take it she should definitely grab the opportunity (IMO).

I accidentally employed someone like your DN once. She was lazy entitled and useless. Never again. Anyone who is happy to live off their mum and dad as an adult rather than pull their own weight is not someone I would want in my team.

Your being nieve she can't live off £12000 in London. She'll end up with barwork and quitting internship. Also internships scream I'm desperate. It took me 6 months to find a job. I actually quit my uni job to concentrate on my career. I was encouraged by people who didn't know better to take any job but applying for graduate jobs was full time work involved alot of prep. I applied for 70+ jobs. Got 3 interviews. Doesn't sound much but job searching was intense (mid recession) and extremely competitive.... It involved so much more than throwing out a few cvs...... If she's sitting on her ass that's different but covid is hardly a good time to look. I got my dream job tho I was applying for everything and was the first to get a relevant job and get chartered. Friends who took basic level jobs took alot longer to get into the field and are much worse off. A year is very reasonable in this economy and if she takes 6 months to really focus/recover. She'll be prepared and can take on part time work if things are slow.

@WhereamI88

In my career, most employers heavily discriminate against those with irelevant or only somewhat relevant experience and value academics more highly. So she would be better off not working and putting in real effort in the applications (assuming she has an Oxbridge or London degree and a high 2:1).

This

For context I worked every mcjob in the book throughout uni. So laziness was not the issue and I qualified with excellence. So grades weren't either. A year to find a job is reasonable provided this won't be their first job

I agree with you but it’s your niece’s and brother’s life.

But if it was my daughter I’d expect her at the least to get work somewhere even if it meant evenings and weekends in a pub supermarket or restaurants to keep her days free for interviews,