To expect graduate to get a job whilst applying for ‘the perfect’ job?

[Rosehip345]

Please settle a disagreement between myself and my brother.

DN back from uni having graduated and done well in chosen (and fairly select and over subscribed) field.
Her plan with DB’s approval is to live at home for a year whilst applying for jobs, so far she has had three interviews and not got any.
They both disagree with me that she should get any job or an internship etc in the interim whilst continuing to apply for ‘the perfect job’.

My kids are very young so I don’t have any experience of this yet but I’d imagine I’d be telling them to get some life experience and more relevant experience around the subject whilst still applying, surely that’d make them seem more appealing than just staying at home doing nothing for year?

Yes, internship is not going to pay for all the bills, but it is temporary and allows people to build experience and useful connections in the field

It is all very well saying it won’t cover all the bills but it is a great opportunity.
What happens if you need to cover all the bills.
Who is covering them even for a few months.

@HerNameWasEliza But do you not see on that basis you are now assuming (bias) that everyone will be the same.

Taking a job does not mean you now know how to handle all those things. Not taking a job doesn't mean you don't have those skills. From experience - having a "low paid" job, have had people not suited for the different environment to those well suited.

I don't think it is a bias any more than asking for any sort of experience is a bias. I know you can have those skills from other experiences but it is less likely. Honestly I'd interview someone like that if they showed some promise in their application but I have learnt to screen for lazy and entitled snow flakes in interview questions. Plus it takes money to live. If you are living a life where you can supported by others you're in a position of extreme privilege and if we want to make any efforts to level our unlevel playing field that should not be rewarded.

@Oliversmumsarmy

Yes, internship is not going to pay for all the bills, but it is temporary and allows people to build experience and useful connections in the field

It is all very well saying it won’t cover all the bills but it is a great opportunity.
What happens if you need to cover all the bills.
Who is covering them even for a few months.

Her dad is happy to support her for a year, so in this specific example, she has the necessary financial support available. It will cost him to have her at home as well.

I still take the view that, in the current economic climate, a graduate would be well advised to take an industry specific internship if they can make the finances work. Given the level of support in place here, she may have turned down the best opportunity she gets offered. Why did she apply if she didn't want it?

A bird in the hand is always worth two in the bush.

Mine is off to uni this September so we’ve had a lot of chats about what we can offer. We’ve said that if she needs to do unpaid internship work we would love to support her by welcoming her back into the family home, but we can’t hand over any cash. She’s worked since she was 16. I can’t imagine her “sponging” off us as an adult.

• life where you can supported by others you're in a position of extreme privilege

@HerNameWasEliza
But here, you are choosing not on basis of suitability or skill but purely on the assumption that anyone who is supported is extreme privilege and be penalised for that. Social engineering and personal bias.

Well, HerNameWasEliza, that's a bizarre way of finding applicants, and seems full of the discrimination you are purporting to eliminate.

In fact some "underprivileged" young people are far-better placed to take a low-paying (or non-paying) internship because they may live in London. We are not poor, but certainly not rich and a weekly season ticket to London from here is £180. We can put up ds until he finds a job, but £180 a week to travel to an internship? Er, no. And as for London accommodation - hee hee.

I'd also like all you people to show where there are any internships at the moment. There's more chance of seeing a flying elephant at the moment.

@IrmaFayLear

My point is that people should get a low paid job if that' all there is rather than sitting on their bums being supported by others, so I am not disagreeing with you here at all. Of course some people can't afford to work for free and I don't think systems should require them to.

@holdingpattern If you have lived a life of privilege where you had not had to work like others, you would expect that person to be more competent at some tasks but that is not a reflection of ability. It is a myth that there's a level playing field in the first place so it's silly to act as if it is and then compare apples and pears and positive discrimination is absolutely not personal bias. I think that's a bit of a daft things to suggest TBH.

@HerNameWasEliza Of course some people can't afford to work for free and I don't think systems should require them to

My point is you say above, but then you would discriminate on them on paper first before even finding out why. That seems unfair.

A. None of your business whatsoever
B. I think single-minded pursuing of her goal is a good idea at this stage, when she can do it and is not fettered by finances. It is great that she knows exactly what she wants to do and is focusing on doing it.
C. It's not even September!

@holdingpattern

I think we must be talking at cross purposes as I can't make sense of your response. I never said I'd not find out why? I said quite clearly there are sensible reasons why someone might not work - health and caring responsibilities. My point is that it is not a good character trait being advertised if you're happy to bum around at someone else's expense and neither is it honing some work skills which can be honed in most jobs.

ReceptacleForTheRespectable

The question was What happens if you need to cover all the bills

A friend of mine was in a relationship for several years with a guy who left his 'fantastic' job soon after they got together - someone had said something he took exception to and he walked out. Her salary wouldn't keep them so they both moved in with his mother. Friend, and the guy's mother, are grafters who know what work means. Guy's speciality was SO niche (something in computing) that no employment agency could possibly find a job he would accept. This went on for years, with the odd imaginary health scare making him unfit for work etc etc. Friend and the guy's mum kept him, his benefits paid most of his credit card and they bailed him out, in return for him doing the laundry and cooking while they worked all day and evenings too.

Last I heard he was pot-washing in a cafe, and was loving it. Friend saw the light and moved on.

It isn't good to be too precious about how fabulous they are, and certainly not at the beginning of a career. Get out in the real world.

@IrmaFayLear

Well, HerNameWasEliza, that's a bizarre way of finding applicants, and seems full of the discrimination you are purporting to eliminate.

In fact some "underprivileged" young people are far-better placed to take a low-paying (or non-paying) internship because they may live in London. We are not poor, but certainly not rich and a weekly season ticket to London from here is £180. We can put up ds until he finds a job, but £180 a week to travel to an internship? Er, no. And as for London accommodation - hee hee.

I'd also like all you people to show where there are any internships at the moment. There's more chance of seeing a flying elephant at the moment.

Actually, London accomadation can be cheaper than 180/week ( bills included) in a flat share.. take a look in spare room.com there’s rooms for 90/week. OP said her niece had been offered an internship, but she was going to turn it down!!! That’s what the debate was about

I agree part-time voluntary work would be the answer. It gives experience whilst being more flexible and also allowing for time to still look for the ideal job.

For all those people saying take voluntary work-there isn't any!
Due to the pandemic nobody is accepting new volunteers and combined with hundreds of people chasing any job it's a perfect storm.
The government has done such a good job of terrifying the country that now they want to claw back the little economy we have people are too scared to return to their workplaces.
All casual work both paid and voluntary has dropped off the planet and we are going into the deepest recently living memory.
This,sadly, is only the start of it.

*recession

I short list applicants. 1/3 of the scoring is on education, 1/3 on experience, and 1/3 on personal statement. Obviously relevant experience is better, but any experience of a minimum 6 months demonstrates a level of commitment and the ability to get up and go to work every day. Personal statements which are generic and don't even reference the job description are lazy and a definite no. Unexplained gaps in education and work history are a definite no.

She is far better off taking something low paid that her and her Dad feel she's too good for and sticking at it for 6 months, a year even better. She can still live at home to save money, and she's got the rest of her life to work her way up her chosen career ladder. Lets be honest she's unlikely to get to retire before she's 70!

Also on personal statements... I know they're called "personal" but they're really not. I want you to tell me what you can offer my company which the other applicants can not. I really don't care if you play badminton in your spare time!

Does your brother tell you how to bring up your kids? None of your business what they decide to do. Furthermore your DN is an adult a d can decide for herself. She would be just as entitled to criticise you ..how would that make you feel?

@Bushgirl

Does your brother tell you how to bring up your kids? None of your business what they decide to do. Furthermore your DN is an adult a d can decide for herself. She would be just as entitled to criticise you ..how would that make you feel?

Or maybe you could read the OP’s comments (quite easy to do now by selecting see all) and you will see that OP’s brother ASKED for her opinion.

If for a graduate, then there are various graduate interviews, tests that take place then further interviews. But once again looking at skills, or evidence of those skills in projects (yes even uni projects), evidence of potential at the skills we are seeking.

@holdingpattern - that is all very well, but my point was how you would narrow down hundreds (or in some case thousands) of applicants so you get a reasonable number to be able to be interviewed. So many positions now have hundreds upon hundreds of applicants. Obviously you will start by ruling out people who haven't evidenced in their application the particular qualification or skillset needed for the role, but people on this thread were talking about various things they might look at to bring the applicants list down to a manageable number after that. You can't possibly expect companies to interview 300 candidates for a role - you need to shorten that list somehow.

@backforgood sorry don't want to drag this thread out, but didn't notice your question. I don't think I've ever had 300 graduate applications for a single role.

Graduate roles are where experience wouldn't count for much. I narrow down on skills, and anything that shows those technical skills. Soft skills are so easy to proclaim, job experience doesn't help on those - normally only get a feel for those during interviews. I look for evidence in the CV for potential - not for unrelated experience, because that doesn't help me. e.g. I got a Gold for DOFE, that's great for teamwork in your team, but it doesn't tell me you have the skills to do this job or whether you would fit with my team, or I worked 3 jobs to pay for University, is admirable in its own right, but not helping me know you have the technical skills I require.

We did get a 100 applicants who we split and interviewed for 50 roles.

Basically what I am saying, there are a lot of criteria, and I will give everything a due value, but I wont exclude a graduate or intern on the basis of lack of work experience - everyone is different. The OPs case depending on the graduate, perhaps the desire to find a right job might come across as determined, it might come across as a snowflake. Personally I would rather see the person as a person and decide.