To expect graduate to get a job whilst applying for ‘the perfect’ job?

[Rosehip345]

Please settle a disagreement between myself and my brother.

DN back from uni having graduated and done well in chosen (and fairly select and over subscribed) field.
Her plan with DB’s approval is to live at home for a year whilst applying for jobs, so far she has had three interviews and not got any.
They both disagree with me that she should get any job or an internship etc in the interim whilst continuing to apply for ‘the perfect job’.

My kids are very young so I don’t have any experience of this yet but I’d imagine I’d be telling them to get some life experience and more relevant experience around the subject whilst still applying, surely that’d make them seem more appealing than just staying at home doing nothing for year?

Whereas I'd be sceptical about a London internship. I agree almost totally with you. I would not go for something unrelated but would at least look in the voluntary sector so in the interview there won't be a gap. She is not 'owed' a job and if it's a limited field unless she's one of these brilliant orators that can sell snow to Eskimos she'll be waiting a long long time (and as she has failed 3 interviews she isn't).
I'd discount London purely because of the amount of scams and high cost of living.
Has she written to the interviewers asking for feedback??? If not I think she will be in for a bad bout of realism.

The company I work for take all their new full timers from impressive interns unless it’s senior or very specialised, so they are nuts turning down intern roles in the correct field.

@Rosehip345

Still intrigued by those who say in their career that a year should be left for job searching. What careers are you in please because myself and quite a few others would obviously be doing our children a disservice by suggesting other work/work experience

Law, Medicine, Finance, Architecture that I'm sure of. Science usually requires internships. In my field they arnt taken seriously. It all depends on the degree. Recruitment process etc.

@DeeCeeCherry you sound very cross!

I think it’s good that you have supported your dc and that she managed to get a decent job after six months. However, numerous HR people on this thread have said that, all things being equal, those with work experience (internship, volunteer or low paid) will be favoured over those who have sat on their backside doing nothing for a year. Other people have given examples about how their dc’s experience in non-related, or lower-paid not-quite-dream jobs have helped them reach their goals.

As to the rest of you sounding so pompous about whether you'd take her on or not - You sound eager to wield the big stick, disgruntled reasons not to employ younger people. Hence the ridiculous (wishful thinking) notion that 6 months non-employed = she won't get a job. Of course she will. It's thankful many don't have the power to hire and fire at will; it would 100% be women who'd be other womens' worst enemies. Pregnant, or too happy sounding a home life, or young and attractive, you've had it in terms of getting the job. Women discriminate against women all the time yet have the nerve to complain when men do it.

I’m sorry but are you actually being serious? Saying you wouldn’t hire someone due to lack of work experience is not women discriminating against women.

I don’t care if you’re male, female or a chimpanzee. If the individual has never taken the initiative to seek a job out or relevant voluntary work and and has sat on their ass for a year doing absolutely nothing but applying for jobs it doesn’t endear them to perspective employers.

@DeeCeeCherry
This thread has obviously hit a nerve for you.
Please reread my responses before replying.

Yes the decision is between them and doesn’t effect me in any way whatsoever.

I was asked my opinion

My opinion is that doing something, anything! is preferable to the current situation of getting up past noon, doing job applications then spending evenings at the pub. Yes it’s only been 9weeks, but apparently this is the intention for the next year.
Obviously a job, work experience or the internship (that has been offered) that is relevant is going to be the best option, but failing that, anything to make her a bit more of an active member of society. DB has literally said how he can’t imagine how they’ll cope with her treating the place like a hotel for the next year.

@DeeCeeCherry just because your DD was far too intelligent and precious to dare dip her feet into the pool of non dream jobs, doesn't mean that's aspirational or how everyone feels.

My two graduates are folding jumpers & serving toast, am proud they have a work ethic 🙂

Does she drive? If not that would be a useful life skill to acquire. If she then decided to look for temporary work it could make the difference between getting a job and not.
DS worked unsocial hours in a supermarket and we have NO bus service. He couldn't have done it if he couldn't drive.

No she can’t drive. It costs money to learn to drive, not sure who pays at the pub but she can’t afford driving lessons. It has been mentioned.

@Rosehip345

No she can’t drive. It costs money to learn to drive, not sure who pays at the pub but she can’t afford driving lessons. It has been mentioned.

Well she should get a job. My eldest teenager got a job after GCSEs and worked until a few months before A levels and saved enough money to pay for driving lessons and buy a car. If you are young and want money then you need to earn it doing whatever job you can get such as cleaning, shop work, leisure centre staff etc.

I don't know what her career aspirations are but surely anyone would be hampered by inability to drive? If parents can afford to keep her for a year then surely they can afford to get her on the road?

I realise that my view is affected by living rurally where every parent gets their offspring driving as soon as they are 17 .

@honeylulu

As someone who is part of a recruitment panel for trainees (law firm), I would take a very dim view of that. Work experience, great, even if unpaid. Filling in with paid bar/shop work also good. Shows work ethic and an attitude of "I'll do what needs doing" rather than "I'm too good to waste my time working with the proles".

I was also a graduate recruitment partner in a city law firm: totally agree!

I worked In Financial services and we offered a really good graduate scheme, think 34k in the first year, experience in every area of the company for 3 years and if you did well you could choose which are you'd like to work in, plus bonus and pay rise. I was on the panel that decided who we gave the opportunities to.

I'd not even entertain anyone who'd not either done paid or voluntary work. I actually used to rate people who'd worked at McDonald's as it's a very steep learning curve for anyone jumping in there, plus you have tight tartlets to hit etc. Most grads worked around their studies too which shows a good work ethic. Anyone who'd not done anything similar or nothing at all had me thinking they had a high opinion of themselves

tight tartlets we should t be hitting tight tartlets

Sorry for the typo

Its strange reading the comments above from recruiters. I work for a very large organisation. Specifically we are told to keep an open mind, avoid our own prejudices being applied to experience and education. I am involved in recruiting people in a technical field. Most will be graduates. Experience is only counted for experienced people. Most important is attitude. Getting a job or not would have no value.

Actually from me having a job in an unrelated field is not going to help the application at all as it shows nothing for this field. I wouldn't be judging on that at all. Sure it might provide some examples they could provide, but it will not be the difference between candidates.

So its up to them what they do.

PS the one thing I do know is recruiters tend to have their own view of what is important

holdingpattern the experience from minimum wage jobs does count towards team working, managing conflict, working to targets, customer facing issues (sometimes) etc. which is as important as the technical aspects in many roles. The person I employed and never would again had never worked hard and had been looked after by mummy and daddy for far too long. She did not understand basic work issues like getting to work on time, coping with the disappointment of not getting leave when you want etc. It is not a prejudice to look for people who can do that. Plus I'd think that if you can't work 40 hours a week and also apply for jobs, you may struggle to keep up with some fast paced and demanding roles so applying for jobs is no excuse either (unless people have health issues or caring responsibilities of course).

Some of my best employees who went on to do wonderful things had a chemistry degree but worked in IT with myself.

As to the rest of you sounding so pompous about whether you'd take her on or not

I haven't read a single 'pompous' post. I've read people who actually do recruiting as part (or all) of their job, sharing their experience to let people know how it is.

For all those people who say it isn't any of the OP's business - she has stated quite clearly (more than once - including early on in this thread) that she was asked for her opinion. If you are asked for your opinion, then it is normal to then offer your opinion, in my world.

@holdingpattern - so how do you narrow down several hundred applications, to a reasonable shortlist ? Do you have better criteria recruiters could use ? @HerNameWasEliza has listed all sorts of experience holding down a job brings.

It depends on her degree and whether she's worked before, too. If she's graduated in a soft science like psychology, then she shouldn't be holding out for a graduate role and I would take anything. Maths or engineering? I would imagine she'll find something within six months.

But if she hasn't had any job before, she needs to get a job ASAP. If that's the case then I feel she is in a poor position.

But ultimately if she already has a couple of years of bar work or supermarket experience, an extra few months of the same isn't going to add a great deal to her CV.

I wouldn't take a 'dim view' of someone who takes a few months off after graduating whilst job searching. People are allowed a break, and it's not as if she's away taking drugs in Thailand.

I'd also point out that she will likely know her situation better than the OP or her parents do. She may have done something within her degree that will make her particularly desirable to employers - not unrealistic if she has already had interviews. She may have some contacts in the industry and an idea of the job market and they will be factors in her decision.

It's an overwhelming time after graduating, she'll be worried and might be concerned that if she takes a temp job, she'll be stuck there forever. It's incredibly difficult to find any job right now and so I would cut her some slack and give her some space. Your brother sounds supportive.

@BackforGood

As to the rest of you sounding so pompous about whether you'd take her on or not

I haven't read a single 'pompous' post. I've read people who actually do recruiting as part (or all) of their job, sharing their experience to let people know how it is.

For all those people who say it isn't any of the OP's business - she has stated quite clearly (more than once - including early on in this thread) that she was asked for her opinion. If you are asked for your opinion, then it is normal to then offer your opinion, in my world.

@holdingpattern - so how do you narrow down several hundred applications, to a reasonable shortlist ? Do you have better criteria recruiters could use ? @HerNameWasEliza has listed all sorts of experience holding down a job brings.

I guess everyone reads things differently but there were a few posts from recruiters that definitely came across as very pompous to me. The taking a ‘dim view’ ones etc almost had me laughing at their self importance.

Sounds like some have no clue what the real world is like.

I guess everyone reads things differently but there were a few posts from recruiters that definitely came across as very pompous to me. The taking a ‘dim view’ ones etc almost had me laughing at their self importance.

If I’ve come across as pompous or self important it was not my intention (having said I’d take a dim view). However when I hire someone they work for me. I need to know that they have the ability to function in a workplace, and the best way to demonstrate that is the ability to hold down a job, even if the job itself isn’t relevant to my field as it is likely there will be transferable skills. At the end of the day I want to hire someone who will do well. It’s a sign of the times that when you advertise a job, the volume of applications means that there needs to be a selection process. If everyone who applied was interviewed then you would never fill the position, or get any work done.

If a cv came my way that had reasons for lack of employment history, e.g caring responsibilities etc then that is different.

The thing in the company I work for is that most blank cvs (job experience wise) won’t make it to hiring managers. They will be filtered out before they make it that far by recruitment. If they do, they often won’t make it to interview as you often have a limited number of interview spaces.

It can be different for graduate schemes where there are different hoops to jump through. It’s also different depending on the roles you’re applying for, if the role you apply for is degree specific then the above would be less likely to apply, but it depends on the level of competition.

She's a recent graduate who's already managed to get three interviews. We've just been through a pandemic and hundreds of thousands of people are unemployed and applying for anything, and ot getting any replies back.

Times are different from the old good times when you could just walk in a shop/call centre/restaurant and get a job at the drop of a hat. And also temping is different, you won't get a job easily temping in admin, there's a huge level of competition and agencies have experienced candidates to choose from. Not sure why everyone is piling on her, I'd be terribly upset if I read someone like thks posted about me.

@BackforGood : Basically I(we) are looking for skills and ability. If for an experienced role, then relevant job experience is important plus key skills. The more that match the better.

If for a graduate, then there are various graduate interviews, tests that take place then further interviews. But once again looking at skills, or evidence of those skills in projects (yes even uni projects), evidence of potential at the skills we are seeking.

I won't hold it against a candidate if they have or have not taken a random job. But it's only going to be a positive if it shows the tech skills I need.

Filtering - depends on the manager. If they say I want skills x,y,z the recruiters filter on that basis, not oh person Y worked at Costa so that makes them better than person Z.

Every place I've been, or recruiter I've seen seems to have their own criteria/bias. I've had a debate about Duke of Edinburgh value with another in the industry (manager) who rates it high value for hiring young folk. Wherever I've been we've not rated it anything. It might make a topic of conversation, but certainly not a factor to decide.

Also bear in mind, if a grad gets a temp job in the relevant field then a few weeks/months in is looking to move, it doesn't look great for investing in that person.