To expect graduate to get a job whilst applying for ‘the perfect’ job?

[Rosehip345]

Please settle a disagreement between myself and my brother.

DN back from uni having graduated and done well in chosen (and fairly select and over subscribed) field.
Her plan with DB’s approval is to live at home for a year whilst applying for jobs, so far she has had three interviews and not got any.
They both disagree with me that she should get any job or an internship etc in the interim whilst continuing to apply for ‘the perfect job’.

My kids are very young so I don’t have any experience of this yet but I’d imagine I’d be telling them to get some life experience and more relevant experience around the subject whilst still applying, surely that’d make them seem more appealing than just staying at home doing nothing for year?

It’s not my business what they decide to do. They asked my opinion and I gave it, fair enough they disagreed, but I would like to know if I’m wrong so that I am able to adequately equip my own children in a few years rather than give them poor advice.

I think it depends a bit on her previous work history. Has she ever had a part time job? If she's had a couple of summer jobs, something part time while either at uni or doing A levels then it may not matter as much if she doesn't get anything now.
If she's never had a job, and is now looking at potentially months of job hunting while also not working, then it probably looks worse.

it's only going to get worse when the furlough scheme stops. which means she should try to get a job now while they're may be a chance.

On the other hand, since family are clearly willing to support her, perhaps it would be better to not apply, and let the few available jobs go to people who actually need the money.

I think that taking a part time job or internship while applying for jobs part time would seem the most sensible option to me, if possible.

Job application after job application while working full time (and then sorting time off for interviews etc) is soul destroying so no need to do that unless absolutely necessary, but agree one doesn't want to have been doing nothing!

DD1 got a temp job in retail whilst looking for her perfect job (niche area) and it was good for her. She got valuable people skills which then helped her when she had a trial for her permanent job.

wonder08
I wouldn't encourage my academic child with a degree in a respected field to stack supermarket shelves whilst applying for jobs/going to interviews

squeaver
Son of a friend of mine graduated with a first from Cambridge in a very specialised field. Knew exactly what he wanted to do and that opportunities rarely come up. So, he spent a year working in a restaurant kitchen

Funny how different people's views are. I know which if the two above I would employ

I work in a HE careers service. Employers I speak to want candidates who look proactive and have interesting experience and skills. She absolutely should be doing something during this time if she wants to avoid being eclipsed by her peers, although possibly only part-time. A full-time commitment might be a bit of an ask as some graduate job application processes can be very labour-intensive and time consuming...

I think it's hard to get a full time job and to keep applying for something in their chosen field. Job applications are really time-consuming these days, it's not just a question of sending through a CV. The application and interview process can take days. If someone is looking seriously then that is almost a full time occupation in itself - doable with a part-time or very stressfree job but hard otherwise.
I know one of my sons took a labouring job while looking for something more career based, but by the time he'd worked 8-6 and walked half an hour each way on top of that, he was exhausted, and wasn't able to give the jobhunting the focused time it needed. I know that sounds a bit wet, but it's so demoralising to deal with the constant rejections, and more so when you're tired before you even start on what can easily be a 6 hour process.
So part-time would be better, i think, if they can afford that.

I’ve hired for an entry level position in my team this year. I would take a dim view of anyone who has done nothing since university. At the very least I’d expect some volunteering. Id much sooner take someone who has spent the year in McDonald’s than the one who has sat on their bum at home because menial labour is too good for them and they’ve been holding out for something better.

I have a cousin like this. My aunty takes great pleasure in telling anyone who will listen about how qualified her daughter is, how she’s the first in the family to have a PHD and how she’s achieved so much more than anyone else.

She’s been unemployed for the last 5 years because she’s waiting for the perfect job

Was going to say it's not really your business, but, as they asked then I completely agree with you.
I have dc this age (one graduated 3 yrs ago, one finished her degree this Summer, and one about to start University).
I do agree with some pps that jobs aren't so easy to come by, but you've said she was offered a relevant internship, on £12K. She's absolutely bonkers to turn that down. SO many graduates this Summer are scrabbling about trying to get min wage jobs just to earn anything, whilst still looking for their "graduate job".

I think it's hard to get a full time job and to keep applying for something in their chosen field. Job applications are really time-consuming these days, it's not just a question of sending through a CV. The application and interview process can take days. If someone is looking seriously then that is almost a full time occupation in itself - doable with a part-time or very stressfree job but hard otherwise.

Whilst this is obviously true, don't most people manage to apply for a new job while still working in their previous one? Unless someone quits their job without having a new one, or never changes job, they have to fit job hunting around a different job.

The internship in London is great of your db can make up her rent, etc.

In usual years I would agree with you but at present there are no jobs. In your dh's shoes I'd be encouraging some further study - probably too late to sign up for a Masters but something like British Sign Language, TEFL or another language, or even something that interests her. Have a look at your local FE College.

I'm jolly glad my dd has just finished her 2nd year rather than her third at present. If things don't improve by this time next year we'll encourage her to do a post grad.

I agree with you, it it’s none of your business. She’s a grown up, and she’s not your offspring. This is a matter for her and her father, not you.

She should at least be looking to volunteer, I worked in a garage whilst applying for jobs when I graduated, and also volunteered a day a week in the field I was hoping to go into. She would be lucky to get any job now, feeling that some jobs are beneath her and she shouldn't be wasting her time on them until she finds a perfect job (which might never happen) is lazy.

I would let them do nothing else until September.

After that, they need to be getting a job, any job (It'll show at least that they can hold something down, give complementary experience, or just fund some travelling)

If genuinely able to pay for her for another year, then that job could be a volunteering role. That can be a very good way to build skills, plus there is no notice period if the dream opportunity comes up

That internship would be so valuable to her and it’s bullshit she’d be too tired to work around it
I did something similar during the summer break in my 3rd year and worked 9-5.30 then went and babysat for neighbours in the evenings and worked 8-6 as a nanny on the weekends. You just do what you have to do.

Also every time I’ve looked for a new job I’ve had to interview around my current one which is surely the case for most people. Yes you have to stay up late putting together presentations and preparing but that’s what you do if you really want the job!

Speaking as someone who regularly hires for entry level positions, I immediately dismiss CVs without work experience. She's an idiot and completely naive for turning that £12k internship down. That could very well have led to new opportunities, meeting people etc. She will have absolutely nothing interesting to say in an interview if she has no relevant experience and frankly wouldn't get to interview stage anyway.

Also, I agree with previous posts about job applications being pretty full on, but everyone who wants to change jobs has exactly the same experience. And interning means clocking off at 5:30-6pm with no evening work, plus weekends. Companies are always very understanding about interns needing a morning off for a job interview etc. They know the game.

Not your daughter, not your fight.

For the sake of peace probably best to keep your thoughts to yourself although I see your point of view.

My daughter has just finished - v little to apply for and complicated because she needs to isolate/avoid covid risky situations because of medical condition.

She’s got plans but they will take time to work out. We are supportive of these.

Its between your niece and her parents, surely, rather than to do with you.

It depends what she is doing whilst not working too - she may be getting experience voluntarily or something else that will benefit her in the long run.

Personally I'd advise to have a PT job whilst applying for other jobs. FT is a problem because you then constantly have to get time off for interviews/assessment centres etc. However, maybe they have decided that there just isn't enough out there and she'll not apply for other work but continue to focus on getting a suitable job/intern position. I don't think there is anything wrong with either approach (unless your DB can't support her).

If it were my child I’d suggest they get some sort of job as sitting at home applying for jobs is not good for you pr mental health. Applying for grad jobs is very time consuming though and you can get callled for interviews at short notice. Some casual jobs don’t allow for that.

@Iwonder08

How exactly it is your business? I wouldn't encourage my academic child with a degree in a respected field to stack supermarket shelves whilst applying for jobs/going to interviews.

@Iwonder08 you sound exactly like a relative of mine about their child. They were very taken aback when they asked for my opinion (and expected me to agree with them) and I said that if I had the choice of two candidates both with same academic history I would take the one who had stacked shelves rather than the one who thought it was beneath them.

This snobbish attitude like yours is not going to end great when there are thousands competing for jobs which is reality for the next few years

I also recruit and know which if the two applicants I'd take.
The graduate job market will only get harder with more and more graduates applying for each post (not to speak of the internships- where competition will be even harder)
I went into the civil service at graduate entry and worked as a switchboard operator for BT and a Christmas bauble stacker upper at WHS while I waited.

No, it's not the OP's business. Not at all. Doesn't mean she's wrong.

Getting a job to tide her over won't be the worst thing in the world. When I graduated, I got a job in a supermarket before I got something else. Then when I graduated from my masters degree I got a job back at the same supermarket while I found something else.
I was a bit put out by it both times to be honest. Not what I wanted to be doing with my life at either point in time. But my parents were clear that if I wanted to be at home til I could afford to move out again, I needed to get a job. And they were right quite frankly. (Don't tell them...)