To expect graduate to get a job whilst applying for ‘the perfect’ job?

[Rosehip345]

Please settle a disagreement between myself and my brother.

DN back from uni having graduated and done well in chosen (and fairly select and over subscribed) field.
Her plan with DB’s approval is to live at home for a year whilst applying for jobs, so far she has had three interviews and not got any.
They both disagree with me that she should get any job or an internship etc in the interim whilst continuing to apply for ‘the perfect job’.

My kids are very young so I don’t have any experience of this yet but I’d imagine I’d be telling them to get some life experience and more relevant experience around the subject whilst still applying, surely that’d make them seem more appealing than just staying at home doing nothing for year?

tbf the problem with this is if you get an interim job you are locked down and if something good comes along you are not free to take it. I do think a year is way too much though

And FYI I did a law degree at a Top 3 university.

I also worked as a health shop assistant, in Debenhams, in a call centre and in a letting agents.

If I hadn't have had this experience I would have struggled to answer some of the competency based questions in the graduate interviews.

Academic performance isn't as important as attitude, character and skills IMO (and most other people's opinions involved in graduate recruitment).

@TheSunIsStillShining

tbf the problem with this is if you get an interim job you are locked down and if something good comes along you are not free to take it. I do think a year is way too much though

You just hand your notice in like any other job.

It's a tricky one I think, my DS who is just about to finish his Master's just got a 30 hour a week job at a local shop and will earn £1100 or so a month. My friend's D'S finished his Master's last summer and still hasn't got any sort of job but has had a few interviews for the type of graduate job he wants.
I've got a feeling my friend's DS will get one of these jobs before my DS does.

YANBU but it's not your place to interfere really. If your DB and DN think it's acceptable that's their business.
When your children are older you can advise them differently.

Personally, I think the DN should be applying for any job or taking up an internship (with some financial contribution from the parents if the money from the internship is not enough to live on away from home) or staying at home and doing some kind of voluntary work in a related field.
I think doing something definitely looks better on a CV than having a gap between leaving uni and these applications.

A relative of mine didn't manage to get on a graduate scheme when she left uni so she decided to work full time at Nandos where she had been working during her degree. She was quickly promoted to manager and stayed there for a couple of years before landing a fantastic job in her original field and has a very successful career.

So many superior attitudes on this thread and it’s not from the ones saying YABU.

In principle I agree with you but there is a lot of judgement from supposedly high flying managers on here about a situation that they know very little about.

How exactly it is your business? I wouldn't encourage my academic child with a degree in a respected field to stack supermarket shelves whilst applying for jobs/going to interviews

Friends Ds got a career in his chosen field with all his university fees paid for by the company because he was doing low paid jobs like stacking supermarket shelves

Going to work, any work is showing the next employer that they can get up and dress themselves and get themselves to work on time and be a part of a team.

Taking an internship in your chosen field sounds like a gift that will open doors.

It is like someone only wanting a lead role in a movie and not going to auditions for the walk on one line parts because they are holding out for the lead

@Iwonder08

How exactly it is your business? I wouldn't encourage my academic child with a degree in a respected field to stack supermarket shelves whilst applying for jobs/going to interviews.

Are you OP's sibling?

As a recruiter what do you thinks looks better on a CV - stacking shelves for a year or unemployed for a year?

If the alternatives are paid part time job in the desired field or unemployed and the DN decided on the latter, then frankly she doesn't deserve a dream job.

I used to work in Graduate recruitment. This will 100% count against her.
The first thing we looked for was relevant work experience.

We'd also look for transferrable skills the graduates could have gained during non-relevant work, or volunteering.

She definitely should have taken the internship. I don't think internships should be paid as little as 12k but that's not the point! It would have done wonders for her CV, and she could have networked while she was there.
A lot of internships turn into permanent jobs for good candidates.

If anyone is being 'ridiculous and naive" it's your niece and brother. Baffling!

You're not wrong. I graduated during a recession. I applied for everything I could to get some money, started a masters part time and volunteered in the field of my perfect job. I then secured a stepping stone job in my field and then the job I wanted. Had I sat at home for the entire time it took for me to get that job I wanted I doubt my CV wouldve looked as impressive as those who made the extra effort to at least do voluntary work.

@Ellamiss

So many superior attitudes on this thread and it’s not from the ones saying YABU.

In principle I agree with you but there is a lot of judgement from supposedly high flying managers on here about a situation that they know very little about.

Obviously we can only go on the info provided by OP.

Equally though the graduate recruitment world is extremely competitive even in normal years with no economic recession.

If there are mitigating circumstances (single parent, carer, etc) I would expect them to have the emotional intelligence and common sense to say so and then it would be taken into account.

If they don't have the EQ or common sense to do so then I'm afraid they'd be ditched.

The reality is that hiring managers for any kind of role only spend 30 seconds looking at a CV before deciding to bin it or look at it a bit closer.

PlandeRaccordement wins the Whataboutery daily badge.
What about if the relative isn't any other of those things? And where does sexism come into graduates not wanting to do a job they consider beneath them?

@Iwonder08

How exactly it is your business? I wouldn't encourage my academic child with a degree in a respected field to stack supermarket shelves whilst applying for jobs/going to interviews.

Why not?

She will have graduated within the last month and now she is getting ripped apart on a chat forum. Internships for 12k should be made illegal, they are elitist and unfair.

I agree with you in principle. However, DN is not your child. I would butt out. I really don't think it is your place to comment.

If there are mitigating circumstances (single parent, carer, etc) I would expect them to have the emotional intelligence and common sense to say so and then it would be taken into account. If they don't have the EQ or common sense to do so then I'm afraid they'd be ditched.

Even though it is proven that employers discriminate AGAINST hiring single parents, carers, and those with disabilities you expect them to volunteer that information to a recruiter? So it’s dammed if you don’t, damned if you do.

Is she actually looking for a dream job or looking for a job in her field? I feel like that is a massive difference.

I think it is fair enough to only look at jobs on her own field for a while and if she doesn't get anyhting then widen the web. I remember when I graduated I looked for jobs. Amy jobs. I got an interview with a ship cleaning company but all other interviews were within my own field. Nobody wanted to hire a fresh specific field graduate to do 'anyjob'. The internship sounded good, however she has to come to realization herself and it might take a while.

Yanbu. Turning down an internship in her field if your DB is willing to support her was an act of insanity!

I've done a certain amount of recruiting throughout my career and I'm afraid if it came down to a choice between someone who'd been passive like your DN or someone who'd taken on an interim job of the burger-flipping/dishwashing variety I'd pick the latter every time.

Investment banker here. I would rather a young grad take gaps out to travel / learn Python / a language etc while applying for relevant jobs then see someone with a CV full of irrelevant work just for the sake of not having a gap.

Flipping burgers or working in a call centre, if needed, can be a good idea when you are applying for front office or roles that require great communication skills.

But if your aim is to be a programmer nobody’s going to jumping over themselves to interview you, if you let your skills rot for a year because you’re scared of the gap. I mentor BAME kids from underprivileged backgrounds, many of whom have to work, and I tell them to keep doing free tech learning from Udemy etc while they apply to stay relevant.

@ScorpioSphinxInACalicoDress

PlandeRaccordement wins the Whataboutery daily badge. What about if the relative isn't any other of those things? And where does sexism come into graduates not wanting to do a job they consider beneath them?

I was challenging the attitude by a recruiter that said she would always reject graduates with no work history. In the context of someone who always does this, they are 100% sure to have discriminated against single mothers, disabled and carers.

I have a university age child. I'd expect him to set a deadline (say 2 months) then take whatever he can. Waiting for the perfect job is silly when there's plenty of things that a new graduate can learn even in a minimum wage job.

Turned down an internship - fool! Get them to watch the film Happiness

So many people have been/will be laid off due to Covid that she is better off doing some voluntary work in her chosen field as your brother and SIL can clearly afford to support her. She then gets some experience in the right field doesn't stop somebody who needs paid employment from finding work.
She shouldn't be doing nothing for a year though.

Has she actually declined the internship though? I interpreted the OP’s comment to mean that she’d been offered it but OP thought she should do another part time job alongside it and DN disagreed. Correct me if I’m wrong!

I agree that she needs to do something that can go on her CV while she’s looking for the job she wants, but I really feel for 2020 graduates

I agree with you OP.