To expect graduate to get a job whilst applying for ‘the perfect’ job?

[Rosehip345]

Please settle a disagreement between myself and my brother.

DN back from uni having graduated and done well in chosen (and fairly select and over subscribed) field.
Her plan with DB’s approval is to live at home for a year whilst applying for jobs, so far she has had three interviews and not got any.
They both disagree with me that she should get any job or an internship etc in the interim whilst continuing to apply for ‘the perfect job’.

My kids are very young so I don’t have any experience of this yet but I’d imagine I’d be telling them to get some life experience and more relevant experience around the subject whilst still applying, surely that’d make them seem more appealing than just staying at home doing nothing for year?

She needs to get off her arse and get a job.
My dniece has finished university and is working as a care worker.
Her parents are well off, so she doesn’t need the money, but she recognised the importance of gaining work experience

Bet the part time internship would in reality be FT hours but without the pay, so probably not able to work alongside it. However, it could have been a way in the profession perhaps. I think she ideally should have given it a go at least, but without the PT job as well. The 12k would have been better than nothing too.

But at the end of the day its not your business, so leave them to it.

I also recruit heavily for graduates/entry level roles and would always turn someone down if they didn’t have any work experience. It’s actually a frequent argument between me and my boss because he values a degree very highly whereas I couldn’t care less whether they’ve been to university or not and would much rather hire someone with a bit of experience and some get up and go.

New graduates have a very high drop out rate in their first year of working and primarily this comes down to a lot of them just not liking going to work and having a full time job, particularly now in this culture of wanting what they want now and not working for anything. Therefore I want to see that someone has had that experience, knows what a job is going to be like and isn’t going to be coming in late every day because they’ve never had to be somewhere by 8.30am before

The sector I think is important to this question. In this case if she can get an internship it may be beneficial but for your children some vocations prefer you to come as a clean slate so they can teach you their ways of doing things (and bad habits) rather than trying to train others out of you. In general though I’ve always thought any work is better than none as it teaches structure of a working day, communication etc.

YABU

Whilst your view maybe correct generally, you know little of the stresses and strains your DN and DB are involved in. To try and overrule their views on what seems little more than ignorance of their situation is controlling at best. How about you just be a supportive sister / Aunt.

@Iwonder08

How exactly it is your business? I wouldn't encourage my academic child with a degree in a respected field to stack supermarket shelves whilst applying for jobs/going to interviews.

😱 Holy cow! Up your arse much? 😂

Agree with you, but it is none of your business.

She would be lucky to get any kind of job at the moment.

Haven't you heard, Covid has plunged us into the worst recession for decades.

The sort of job a new graduate with no practical experience can get are very few and far between.

retailers like M&S and John Lewis are laying people off, so are food chains like Pizza Express.

If her parents can afford to support her, she's the lucky one.

She could look at voluntary work however, to improve her CV.

One of my dc has just graduated with a first class Masters and is working in a supermarket whilst applying for jobs. He would bite your hand off for an internship in his chosen field whilst looking for his ideal job. Unfortunately this is going to be impossible due to where we live.

Yes, she should get a job. . he can't find paid employment, volunteer at a charity shop. ANY job develops valuable transferable employment skills to put on her CV : and she can cultivate work referees.

 A shelf stacker, dog walker or charity shop worker  demonstrates flexibility, reliability,  good time keeping,  handling cash,  building relationships with colleagues, developing discretion, good humour,  tact and PR with clients etc.

Any other year and if it were your child, you would not be unreasonable.
But
It’s 2020 Covid year where every day thousands of jobs are cut and the unemployed have increased by millions. Jobs are thin on the ground.
This is also your DN and YABU to interfere in your DBs and SILs parenting decisions. This is not anyone you are financially supporting
Also, if she’s had 3 interviews, she’s applying to many many jobs, not just “a perfect job”. So you are exaggerating there.
Depending too on where they live, public transportation costs may eat up most of her earnings.
There is also loss of time to do good applications or be available for video interviews anytime during business hours.

@Rosehip345

Well this was my point. I think they’re expecting her to have got this job within a year, there is no planB. She’s found a part time internship in the right field in London for £12k. I thought that sounded great as she could do another job alongside to help with living costs and it’d be a step towards ‘perfect job’ I’ve been told I’m ridiculous and naive??

Has she found or been interviewed and offered this internship? Two very differnt scenarios.

YABU because this is none of your business.

Tbh it's between your brother and niece. Unless they're asking you to finance her life choices it's not really any of your business.

Or would you like to invite their criticism of your decisions as a parent, in time?

The longer she has "unemployed" on her CV, the harder it will be to get the dream job.

As a career coach and someone who used to be on the panel for graduate recruitment I wholeheartedly agree with you OP.

I'm not sure a CV with a year's gap would make it to interview and if it did my first question would have been 'what did you spend your year doing?'.

If the answer was just apply for X jobs and nothing else I would think that they were spoilt / might consider themselves 'above' doing certain tasks which does not bode well for relationship building skills or were unmotivated and too lazy to do anything else.

I would be asking some pretty pointed questions to find out which, if any, of the above applied.

It would be a pretty big black mark against them in the interview process.

I also recruit heavily for graduates/entry level roles and would always turn someone down if they didn’t have any work experience. It’s actually a frequent argument between me and my boss

That’s really prejudicially classist, ableist and sexist of you. What if the person is from an economically depressed crime ridden area where there are no jobs? What if they are a disabled/SEN student and literally could not succeed at both degree studies AND working? What if it’s a Young carer who as well as studying is doing 30hrs caring for a disabled relative as well as studying? What if it’s a single mother who cannot work and study because they have a baby/small child to also look after?

You cannot morally “always” turn down a qualified applicant because they have not worked before. You think a person who hadn’t work must always have no “get up and go” as you put it but you have no idea as to their personal circumstances. I think your boss is correct.

YANBU. A graduate who has done literally nothing since they left uni will be less likely to get the 'perfect' job because employers will (rightly) question what they've been doing for all that time. Ideally they'd get some experience in a relevant field, but anything would be better than nothing - volunteering, travel, temping/casual work.....

You’re going to have to make a lot of black marks, then. 2020 is new territory.

They asked my opinion and I gave it, fair enough they disagreed, but I would like to know if I’m wrong so that I am able to adequately equip my own children in a few years rather than give them poor advice

I think YABU to expect there to be one right answer that works for every person.

You don't know how your DC are going to turn out or what circumstances will exist when/if you're ever faced with this issue, so deciding how you'll handle it now sounds like madness.

All the posters who are saying it is none of the OPs business did they miss the update when OP said she was asked for her opinion by her brother

I wouldn't necessarily want my son to get a job/any job while waiting for the perfect one to turn up, but I would want him to do SOMETHING and to support himself to a degree.

If he wanted to spend time pursuing his music, going to gigs, travelling around a bit etc, that would be fine - they don't get this time again and if her parents are happy to support her then why not?

travel?!!!!!!

Have some of you beamed in from 2019?

@Iwonder08

How exactly it is your business? I wouldn't encourage my academic child with a degree in a respected field to stack supermarket shelves whilst applying for jobs/going to interviews.

I mean that's your prerogative but don't be surprised if they have a tough time at graduate recruitment.

I'm afraid there are many graduates with academic degrees from good universities that they'll be competing against who will also show a variety of other skills and character via work experience.

Someone who thinks they are 'above' shop work is a bad bet for a number of reasons, not least that in most graduate careers you need to be able to engage with a variety of types of people. When I started as a graduate there were several people in my intake who looked genuinely uncomfortable when anyone from a 'lower' role or class spoke to them - how well do you think that set them up for a career?

Going to gigs? Strewth.