To expect graduate to get a job whilst applying for ‘the perfect’ job?

[Rosehip345]

Please settle a disagreement between myself and my brother.

DN back from uni having graduated and done well in chosen (and fairly select and over subscribed) field.
Her plan with DB’s approval is to live at home for a year whilst applying for jobs, so far she has had three interviews and not got any.
They both disagree with me that she should get any job or an internship etc in the interim whilst continuing to apply for ‘the perfect job’.

My kids are very young so I don’t have any experience of this yet but I’d imagine I’d be telling them to get some life experience and more relevant experience around the subject whilst still applying, surely that’d make them seem more appealing than just staying at home doing nothing for year?

He then moved to a job that was on the periphieries of the field he now works in, and suddenly he was getting interviews and opportunities that had previously not been there.

Why didn't he do that sooner? It's literally zero surprise that a job in even a semi related field is more likely to help you land your chosen job . If there aren't any semi related though, any work is better than none and you need to be smart about linking the skills to applications you do.

Is it something that there is a voluntary field in or that could be associated with?
"so you have a phd in Navel Lint Knitting from 2019, what have done since graduating?"
A - lived with mummie and daddie and dun nuffink
B - volunteered to train disabled people in Navel Lint Spinning.

Who would be more likley to get the job?

Why would they ask your opinion if they had already decided? I wouldn’t ask for others opinions on the decisions I make for my kids.

If they’re happy to financially support her then that’s up to them. I know my friends son worked full time for a few months whilst looking for the prefect job after graduating but he was constantly taking time off to go for interviews. Each potential job was often a 3 stage interview so holding down another job was really difficult. He worked part time in the end for a further few months which made it easier to apply for jobs, attend interviews and also have time to do the tests and prepare presentations that he needed for the interviews. It was time consuming and working full time meant that he didn’t have time to apply for as many jobs and be really prepared for the high standard expected at interview.

You’re making it sound really easy and simple which it’s not. You need to keep out, and like you say, you’re kids are young and you basically have no idea what you’re talking about.

I think work experience can only be a good thing. However, not sure I’d be I interested in my aunt’s opinion especially when her children are not at that stage. Worry about your own issues.

It seems odd that they asked for your opinion if they've already decided what they're going to do and have strong views about it, so I'd stay out of it as it sounds like someone just wants an argument!

Or maybe they didn’t ask for her opinion. It makes no sense to ask someone’s opinion when you’ve already decided and have strong views. Weird.

As someone who is part of a recruitment panel for trainees (law firm), I would take a very dim view of that. Work experience, great, even if unpaid. Filling in with paid bar/shop work also good. Shows work ethic and an attitude of "I'll do what needs doing" rather than "I'm too good to waste my time working with the proles".

Quite. If nothing else, it shows they can get up on time and do a job. Most graduate entry is pretty junior. Recruiters know that someone slobbing around at home is unlikely to want to do the necessary grunt work.

Lol at those who would turn their nose up at a £12k internship.
Apprenticeships are often a lot lower than £12k but people want them as they give experience in the chosen field, you met contacts in that field and have a foot in the door of the industry.
My son did an apprenticeship for less than £12k now 3 years on he has recruitment agencies ring him to see if he is looking to change jobs.

If ops niece has refused it then I am sure someone else will snap it up and in three years time when the niece could still be looking for that perfect job they will be two steps further up the carer ladder.

It depends on the sector a bit. I think in some cases showing you're keeping up with the field, and doing some online courses to make you more attractive, and spending some time with your family would actually give you a better chance than working 9-5 in a completely unrelated job if you already have good examples for a competency interview. So if you were, say, president of a sports club, did some peer support tutoring for first years, and were on the student-staff liaison committee, I would say that working in Tesco (if it was even possible to get) might not be as valuable as helping your grandma re-plant her garden, and helping write lobbying letters on something affecting your local community.

Personally, at the moment, I probably wouldn't want take a part-time London internship (unless it was being done remotely), if there was a possibility I'd get something related in a commutable distance in the next couple of months. I'd re-evaluate that if I didn't get anything by Christmas, but if I were getting interviews and my feedback was good, I think I'd rather try for a month or two longer, rather than move 100+ miles into (probably) a flatshare.

I don't think doing nothing for a long time is a good idea, but after my first degree (I was going into a Masters so it was a bit different) I easily filled the summer. My family all had one 'last' summer holiday after graduating, and I don't think it made that much difference.

I have seen a LOT of qualified graduates get stuck in a retail job or hospitality or admin that was supposed to just see them by. I would be wary of taking on f/t position like this because i think it does affect your ability to put in really great applications. These jobs are tiring.

Obviously however any relevant work experience should be grabbed with both hands even if it then requires some sort of evening work to get by at first.

Towards the end of my masters i did three causal jobs - one highly relevant, one tangentially related to my field and one waitressing.

I mean I agree with you but at the end of the day she isn't living with you and you're not supporting her so it's not really any of your concern, is it?

@Proudboomer

Lol at those who would turn their nose up at a £12k internship. Apprenticeships are often a lot lower than £12k but people want them as they give experience in the chosen field, you met contacts in that field and have a foot in the door of the industry. My son did an apprenticeship for less than £12k now 3 years on he has recruitment agencies ring him to see if he is looking to change jobs.

If ops niece has refused it then I am sure someone else will snap it up and in three years time when the niece could still be looking for that perfect job they will be two steps further up the carer ladder.

It’s just flown over your head hasn’t it? That people are saying that internships are often the preserve of the wealthy families who can afford to sub students unpaid or low paid ones.

Towards the end of my masters i did three causal jobs - one highly relevant, one tangentially related to my field and one waitressing

I get what you mean, but just wanted to point out that labelling two jobs in terms of the relevance to your chosen career area then stating that the other was waitressing (as if that's an explanation in itself) suggests that waitressing couldn't be even tangentially relevant to any career one could study at masters level and that's not true.

You might have been doing an MBA with a view to working in the hospitality sector, in which case waitressing might be highly relevant!

Are you as keen for other people to tell you are wrong about the decisions you make for your kids?

As I said, ds is at the coal face, and his internship was cancelled. He has scoured and re-scoured the internet every day and there’s not a sniff of anything. His friends are in a similar position. Only a few days ago one friend had their graduate training position cancelled as it was all wfh and this year they were suspending the scheme.

Locally there is absolutely nothing. Only care work - masses of that - and since I have been shielding I have forbidden him to enter a care home - even if he was remotely suitable for that line of work.

£12k for an internship sounds ok if it’s down the road, but if it involves commuting then it may well not cover costs (commuting into London = megabucks). Ds would grab it though, even if we had to pay the company!

Living at home fully supported by her parents she’s in the perfect situation to volunteer or do an internship in her chosen field to gain experience that will give her an advantage for graduate jobs. And shows she actually works for her goals, rather than sitting on her arse scrounging off her parents.

It is a strange and difficult time to be looking for a job. But I agree she should be looking for less than perfect jobs not just waiting for the perfect one. Most jobs involve at least some skills which are transferable. And if her competitors have got transferable experience from working their less than perfect jobs, they will have the advantage over her

A relative thought their dd would walk into a job having graduated from Oxbridge. Five years later, still waiting fir their dream job, but not doing anything active to get it (although are working). They haven’t even considered jobs in the same field to gain experience.

If db is willing to support his dd, then that’s his business. However, I agree with you that she should do something.

Ok so I thought I should clarify;

Yes, they did indeed ask my opinion, although they were obviously just expecting me to say how wonderful, what a great idea.

This does not stop me wondering about their decision and what the general consensus is. Why I’m not allowed to think about it despite my own kids not being at that point yet I’m not sure 🤔

I have no intention of speaking to them about it again, this post was simply out of interest so I don’t give my own children poor advice in future.

Oh and internship was offered but by how they were describing a decision hasn’t actually been made/given

If OP's DNeice doesn't live within commutable distance to this internship (and it's unclear whether she even applied for it nevermind got it!) then it just might not have been workable. It's unlikely that internship is really part time, especially if it's paid, so working PT to top up her living costs in an expensive part of the country may be unrealistic. Even if she did find the energy to get a PT job for evenings and weekends as well, where's hiring? The employers I'm in touch with in hospitality, retail and catering have all either still got staff on furlough, made staff redundant or have cut overtime, nevermind hire anyone new.

While it's not really your business I agree with you. She should be getting out there and doing any job she can find, or failing that, doing voluntary work.

Prospective employers prefer candidates who do this. It shows they can timekeep, learn skills, get on with colleagues, handle equipment, accept responsibility, take orders, generally muck in etc.

Even a job packing eggs or cleaning factory floors at night would do all this and would impress employers no end.

Plus, if she was doing paid work she'd have money in her pocket. That is a big morale booster.

I am by no means wealthy so apart from my son being able to stay at home I was of no help to him.

The naive should have taken the internship and at least given it a try. If her parents are willing to support her for a year then maybe they would have helped financially or she could have still remained at home as the op states the internships in London but no post that the niece is not in a distance She can commute.

The other thing is maybe she enjoys being at home with her family? This year has had lots of uncertainties, and perhaps now she's able to see grandparents and other relatives.

If she's been at university a long way away, I can't really blame her for not immediately wanting to disappear off to London (if you have no particular connection with it, if you live there obviously it's different!) and pay more rent, especially if the jobs she's been interviewing for are in the correct field and closer to home.

None of your business really is it

In an ideal world then yes she should get a job,any job whilst waiting for the perfect one but in the current climate its really difficult! My son graduated last July with a 1st in Maths and has applied for well over 300 jobs but hasn't even had a face to face interview this year - several online ones up until March. Hes been up against Oxford and Cambridge graduates and it is expected in his chosen career path that these candidates would be ahead of him. BUT firstly Brexit was putting a block on recruiting and now this bloody virus. And he can't even get a job in a supermarket or part time role as he's too qualified and they know he will also be looking for a permanent role! He's on the books of four agencies, none of whom have anything of any description. He can't get any jobs in a pub or other hospitality role as there aren't any events at the moment and the two hospitality agencies he was signed up with have closed until Covid is over.

So its pretty shit being a graduate and whilst yes I think he should be trying to get any job its not as simple as it sounds right now. Yes with hindsight he should have prioritised applying for his post graduate job over studying to get his First but thats hindsight for you!

This does not stop me wondering about their decision and what the general consensus is. Why I’m not allowed to think about it despite my own kids not being at that point yet I’m not sure

You're allowed to think about it, obviously!

But even if we were talking about your own DC, the only control you'd have over what another grown adult does is whether you agree to financially support her through this period or not. You might give her advice but even if you were the parent, it wouldn't be your decision outside of financially supporting her.

It's not just a case of judging whether DN is making an unwise decision, here - it also sounds like you disagree with DB's agreement to financially support her when he could force her hand by cutting her off.

Whether DN is making the wisest decision or whether DB is parenting her in the way you agree with are two separate issues, neither of which are your business.

It's impossible to judge from the inside of DB's and DN's relationship as you're not in it with them, and parenting adult children requires very different strategies and thinking from parenting little kids.