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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Am I been unreasonable? Child access

421 replies

pj722 · 23/08/2020 15:48

So, dad here

I have been separated from my wife for a year and a half. We have a 3 year old. We was together 10 years and married. She is 30 and I am 35.

The marital home is now sold, in the last few months and completed. I am still at my mums pending my new house being ready. My ex has now got a shared ownership 4 bedroom house on the same new estate as we lived on before, and as a father I always wanted her and my son to be sorted first. In order to do this, out about £27,000 equity, I ended up with 4k as we paid her car loan, PERSONAL loan, part of her credit card and enough for her a deposit for a new house. It was more than fair on her behalf and a year later until house was sold ive been with my mum. Not easy. I also took majority of credit card debt.

She works as a teacher, 3 days a week, earns about £1340 a month for that. She gets £300 CSA from me, and £86 child allowance, oh and she got some universal credit on top for nursery, but I still paid more than half of nursery on top of CSA. Thankfully our son is now 3 and from 7th sept he gets 30 hours free.

She regularly complains that she cannot manage financially, reasons such as smoking etc are a factor But anyway, that isn’t the point of this.

I work shifts. 6 days on, 4 day off, this is 2 earlies, 2 lates and 2 nights.

Since we split I have my son on 3 of my days off and sometimes after my second early and into the late shift.
So usually out of 10 days I have him overnight 3- 4, mostly 4. It has always worked well.

All of a sudden she has now decided that me working shifts doesn’t provide stability for our son. It would be nice to have more consistency, however he is a very happy boy and knows he gets 3 good days with his dad on his days off.

She doesn’t seem to accept this all of a sudden but maybe it could be because she has met someone new.
I have done a lot of research and it seems the amount of days that a) don’t see their children, b) see them one every 2 weeks is astounding. And I’m getting it in the neck for having him technically 4 in 10?

I would love to see my son more, however due to giving her most of the money from the divorce and having bigger debts I have no choice to carry on working what I do and what I earn. I also need a house now for me and my son too.

I think the question is, what can I do? I don’t think I’m been unreasonable.

The thing is, if she didn’t get the £300 a month CSA she would struggle, but if it came to the point it was half and half she wouldn’t get any CSA and I wonder if she should even get what she gets if I’m already having him 4 nights in 10.

I know this may sound ridiculous bit if I had to have him more and most of the time, then I would consider an aupair and give them £300 a month!

I have to work and do the job I do. I have no choice in the current climate to take pay cuts, change jobs. I did say to her we both need to be thankful we have jobs, and that I am very much part of my little boys life.

All he cares about is being happy, and he gets 4 days off with me so its great.

I don’t want to go to court, because I have never known people go to court because one parent in other parents opinion doesn’t have their child enough, It’s just ridiculous. Surely a judge would accept I’ve done what I’ve done to make sure she and my son are okay.

She isn’t the best communicator most of the time.

OP posts:

Dominicgoings · 27/08/2020 19:09

Cutey. Another question for you.
What knowledge and experience do you have of the nature and dynamics of domestic abuse?
What do you understand by coercive control?
Do you believe that financial control and abuse are ‘stand alone concepts? Which occur completely in isolation from other forms of abuse?

Cuteypye · 27/08/2020 19:12

@Pumperthepumper

I would think that if his ex had been given the choice of equal equity, no CSA and having to pay her own debts off, against the op having his dc 50:50 she would likely have chosen the former!

We have no way of knowing the other side of the OP’s story, unless you know otherwise?

Ever changed the locks on your husband? How much time would your husband want to spend with your children if you split up? How much money do you think he would grudge giving you?

I have never changed the locks on my husband. I doubt he would have wanted to spend anywhere near 50:50 time with our children, if we had split up. The reason being that my husband suffers very poor health and has done so for the majority of our married life (was in the very high risk category and shielded until 1st August, as he would not survive Covid). I have also been the higher earner (in fact the only one, as he has been unable to work, for over 15 years). Being honest I don’t really have any “me” time, which is at times difficult, and many couples would split up in our situation. However, I am under no illusions that I will likely have plenty of “me” time after he has gone. Any more questions?

KeepingPlain · 27/08/2020 19:14

Sounds like she wants weekends off to spend with her boyfriend. Your love life has to take a backseat though once you're a parent. It's second in your life, your child is first. It's not like she doesn't get a routine either, it's 6 days on, 4 days off. That's a regular pattern. How come it was fine too until she got a boyfriend? Only an idiot couldn't figure that one out.

She's being unreasonable I think considering what was paid off for her and the fact that the child is happy. Kids are resilient, and he knows the routine. He's happy. No problem then.

Plus if they had stayed together, she would still have the same routine to handle really. Not like anything changed. I don't see a problem other than its now not convenient for her new partner. Tough luck dude, that's what happens when you date someone with kids. The kids are the priority.

Cuteypye · 27/08/2020 19:27

Sorry I am taking so long to respond, but I do have a life and other things to do, outside

@Pumperthepumper go back and read some of the op’s first few posts, regarding 50:50 access. He is damned if he does and damned if he doesn’t.

@Dominicgoings I will try to get back to you later, dp when I have time.

Pumperthepumper · 27/08/2020 19:28

cutey loads! How much money would he grudge giving you? You missed that one out.

Pumperthepumper · 27/08/2020 19:31

@Cuteypye go back and read some of the op’s first few posts, regarding 50:50 access. He is damned if he does and damned if he doesn’t.

I’ve done this and can’t see any reason why he can’t have 50/50 access. He hasn’t explained why.

heartache590 · 27/08/2020 19:36

On the DV topic, I work professionally in private tax. We see divorces a lot, and provide expert witness on financial abuse.

I believe I would be qualified to give an opinion on it. It is true there is overlap with other forms of abuse, so usually we give our views to a solicitor that subcontracts to us who pieces that together.

The majority of cases we see have women alleging abuse, and a fact find goes against the woman due to a lack of evidence or the XH does a DVP course without admission. He then does supervised contact and they move into a fair arrangement.

Pumperthepumper · 27/08/2020 19:45

The majority of cases we see have women alleging abuse, and a fact find goes against the woman due to a lack of evidence or the XH does a DVP course without admission.

Could you please explain this in a bit more detail?

SBTLove · 27/08/2020 19:50

I think considering your ex only works 3 days per week and you have him 4 out of 10 that’s pretty good, she can’t expect you to
change jobs.
Regards the finances why buy a 4 bed and leave yourself with a very small share?
I think she’s got too used to getting her own way.

Cuteypye · 27/08/2020 20:36

@Dominicgoings

Cutey. Another question for you. What knowledge and experience do you have of the nature and dynamics of domestic abuse? What do you understand by coercive control? Do you believe that financial control and abuse are ‘stand alone concepts? Which occur completely in isolation from other forms of abuse?

I have personal knowledge and experience of abuse, which defined my life for many years. I was also a victim of coercion. Abuse and control are not “stand alone” but are used together to weaken “victims”! I am not comfortable discussing this further, other than to say I am a “survivor.”

However, I fail to see how this is relevant on this thread. It is a big leap to accuse the op of these types of behaviour, from what has been said! If his account is accurate (and no one on here, apart from him, knows that), I think he has acted very fairly and has been treated appallingly by many posters. Without knowing the other side, he should be judged on what he says, not what others make up to suit themselves!

Cuteypye · 27/08/2020 20:51

@Pumperthepumper

cutey loads! How much money would he grudge giving you? You missed that one out.

As I already said, he can’t work, because of his health. He hasn’t got any money to grudge giving to me. That’s right, he would be delighted to give me money, as that would mean he actually had some to give! Does that answer your question?

Pumperthepumper · 27/08/2020 21:13

It does! He wouldn’t grudge you money to raise his children. That makes him completely different to the OP.

Cuteypye · 27/08/2020 21:52

The op doesn’t have the type of job that fits neatly into 9-5, 5 days a week. Presumably his ex was quite happy for him to work these shifts, when they were together. After all, it meant that she could work part time and allowed them to have equity in their house, which she got most of.

It’s easy to say he should get a different job! Employment doesn't just work like that, especially with things the way they are just now. His ex may want him to have their dc on a more regular basis, but how happy would she be getting no CSA, taking over paying her own debts, paying his nursery fees by herself and giving him the other 10k equity that he could have asked for? She’s struggling to manage on what she currently gets, how would she manage on considerably less?

You say you can’t see why the op can’t have 50:50 access! Can you seriously not understand that everyone isn’t lucky enough to work Monday - Friday 9-5 and term time only?

The op said “I would quite happily Work 3 days a week, get her to pay me CSA and have the child allowance every month.” Whether this is true or not, I bet his ex would be horrified at that prospect!

Whatever the op says, he is criticised. He says -
“Okay, so what if I say 50/50, carry on working shifts and get an aupair?”

The responses -
“You don’t get to “say 50/50” because children are humans with rights and needs, not possessions that can be chopped in half. His mother is his main carer as you only do between 3/10 and 4/10 of his care so you can’t change that in order to spite her and pay less.”

“pj722 says a lot that youd rather give £300 to a strange young girl, who may or may not be interested in your kids than the mother of your children who clearly does her job well. I know a couple of men like that. The au pair does everything...”

What actually do you think should happen?
Perhaps, op should just give up his job and take lower wage job, but....
How will he pay CSA?
How will he pay off both their debts?
How will he be able to get a house, when he won’t be able to afford one?

Yes, actually, tell us how he can make things work the way you think he should?

Cuteypye · 27/08/2020 21:54

That tirade was to Pumper.

heartache590 · 27/08/2020 22:16

@Pumperthepumper we assist with the legal aid verification of income. We then do separation agreements at the end.

The court docs typically say abuse is unproven or Dad does a DVP programme. If a mum hasnt got any money, the only way she is going to get representation is with DV allegations to get legal aid or self-represent.

What do you expect to happen? Solicitors dont work for free.

Pumperthepumper · 27/08/2020 22:22

@Cuteypye

You say you can’t see why the op can’t have 50:50 access! Can you seriously not understand that everyone isn’t lucky enough to work Monday - Friday 9-5 and term time only?

Whatever the op says, he is criticised. He says -
“Okay, so what if I say 50/50, carry on working shifts and get an aupair?”

Yes, actually, tell us how he can make things work the way you think he should?

I think he should either fight for 50/50 access and pay nothing in CM or he should accept that he doesn’t have a lifestyle that can support his own child 50% of the time and pay as much as he can without complaint to the other parent who doesn’t have a choice. I think he should stop trying to convince people he’s a Good Dad and look at his own behaviour - why did his ex feel harassed? Why has he overreacted at a simple comment about more consistent access? Why does he feel so angry at being considered a single parent?

Again, didn’t answer my question cutey - you don’t have a husband who would grudge you money to raise your children. He’s a world apart from this OP.

Pumperthepumper · 27/08/2020 22:24

[quote heartache590]@Pumperthepumper we assist with the legal aid verification of income. We then do separation agreements at the end.

What do you expect to happen? Solicitors dont work for free.[/quote]
No, my issue was your choice of wording. Do many women lie about abuse, in your experience of being a private tax professional?

heartache590 · 27/08/2020 22:30

I have no idea. I would say some women lie about the abuse, and some men lie about being innocent.

Pumperthepumper · 27/08/2020 22:31

@Cuteypye I apologise. You did answer my question. Feel a bit sorry for your husband though, doesn’t seem like he deserves to be in the same category as this OP but you know him better than I do.

heartache590 · 27/08/2020 22:32

On the financial abuse, a lot of the time it is unproven. I have seen women given £30 a week to fund the kids/themselves though which was ridiculous.

Pumperthepumper · 27/08/2020 22:32

@heartache590

I have no idea. I would say some women lie about the abuse, and some men lie about being innocent.

Ok. In that case, I don’t understand what point you’re trying to make.

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