Don’t know if I’m BU. Caring for elderly FIL.

[untiednations]

FIL is infirm but lives independently with care visits. He’s 200 miles from us and the journey can take 6 hours sometimes due to traffic and conditions. There’s no one closer to him who’s willing/able to help.

DH wants to move FIL down to a flat on our estate so we can be closer and help him more while also maybe reducing the amount of care visits FIL receives because we will take over. The thing is, it’s not us, it’s me. DH works away Mon-Fri. I work full time and we have 3 kids in nursery. I don’t know exactly what we can offer to FIL if he moves. During the week I go straight from work to nursery, get the kids then home, bath, bed for them. Dinner and chores then bed for me. I don’t have time or energy or childcare to do anything for FIL in the evenings. At the weekends, if DH is doing FIL’s care we won’t be able to do day trips or anything. Not go away for a weekend or whatever.

Every time I try to engage with DH about this he says I’m being heartless, imagine if it was my own father, I’ve got a closed mindset, I’m selfish, accusing me of wanting to keep FIL at arm’s length. This is absolutely not what I’m feeling but I’m very worried about the impact this move might have on my life.

AIBU?

YANBU. Always great when other people volunteer you to do stuff and then get annoyed when you can’t or won’t do it. By the sounds of it you have more than enough going on, especially with him working away so much. That alone would be too much of an ask for me, with 3 young children and a full time job

@PermaStress

Closer may be more practical. And sometimes the only sensible course of action. But I lost count if the number of times I came across elderly patients whose families moved them closer to them as it’s more practical/family can keep an eye etc only for it all to fall apart, as the elderly person has been removed from everything and almost everyone they know (I.e. out of their own environment and away from their social network). It often leads to a marked deterioration in their coping skills- sometimes because it exposes any underlying cognitive issues/exacerbated them, they have routines/work around as (often of long-standing) which no longer work/apply. They lose their social routines/separated from friends and contacts- they become lonely abs this impacts on mood. And it goes on.

For example, I remember one elderly lady who was admitted when I was a trainee. She’s been falling, family really concerned as this was new. They had moved her closer to them about 6 months before as her memory wasn’t so great, her mobility was slowly declining and they thought she needed some more help. All well and good, you’d think. But it wasn’t- this woman used to enjoy going to visit her friend who lived just down the road. She used to walk there quite often, they would have coffee, go for a walk, go to the lunch club etc. When she moved, she didn’t know anyone and struggled to remember names and sometimes would get words mixed up, which she was embarrassed by. So she struggled to make new friends sad was lonely. Her family couldn’t visit daily, which was understandable- but they were the only people she knew locally.

And because her memory wasn’t what it was, she was worried about going out in case she got lost which also caused her to feel more isolated. As she no longer took that walk to see her friend/with her friend, and low mood further impacted in hermotivation to get out and about, there was a loss of fitness and her muscle strength deteriorated too- which led to her falls. That old lady has always stuck in my mind- because it made me think about it- when we move Ensenada relatives, who do we do it for? It made us think very carefully about my grandmother whose health was deteriorating at the time.

What I’m trying to say is that whilst it can be more practical for the relatives, it’s not always the best thing for the elderly person and it can have unexpected/unintended consequences.

YANBU - how on earth can you be expected to care for FIL as well as work and look after the family?? Insane! Either FIL moves nearer with the same care as he is now receiving, or could he move into a care home? You need to put your foot down.

Perfectly reasonable and understandable that your DH wants to move his father closer. I see no issue with that.
Completely unreasonable for the care to fall on you.

YANBU to say that you don't have the time or energy to take on significant caring responsibilities for your FIL.

Your DH may well be right to think that FIL being closer is a good idea. As he ages all kinds of incidents may occur and driving that distance, especially in emergencies, will be a strain, also if a relative is receiving visits from carers I would want to meet them and watch over the situation. If FIL can live closer to you, it makes a lot of sense. The most obvious choice is for him to move closer but with a care plan similar to that he has now.

Yes, it may mean your DH wants to spend more time at weekends with his father but that's fair enough. You can't expect DH wider family needs to have no impact on your life.

Just make sure your DH is not expecting you to pick up the slack while he is away. Being close enough to deal effectively with unexpected needs and keep an eye on his situation is a great idea, you trying to be a carer on top of everything else will help no one.

Your DH may have some guilt and worries about FIL maintaining his lifestyle in the future but moving the elderly can cause more harm than good as @jacks11 explains.
A good local sheltered home set up might be the answer but that takes a lot of persuasion and work trust me!
But you joining the sandwich generation is not the solution it will age you and grind you down, be it you or DH you're not used to living so closely intertwined and he's not used to being cared for by family these arrangements tend to work best in children's novels.
Your DH has a lot if complex feelings but he also has a wife and 3 young children and without talking him out of his decision you need to put forward yours and your children's perspectives because trust me as they get older they'll lose more and more to this arrangement and bearing in mind all of the above it's not clear who will gain other than your DHs perception of his conscience

@jacks11 : Absolutely spot on.
A frail, elderly person with deteriorating cognitive skills, can manage far , far longer in an environment familiar to them, than they can if they are "suddenly" whipped away from everything they know.
Most of us are creatures of habit and can go about our day to day domestic stuff without having to engaged our brains too much.
Move to the unfamiliar and it can be very disorientating, frightening and potentially dangerous for a frail, elderly person.
If/when DFIL requires full time care, a residential care home near to a family member (or 6), would then be a sensible option - if, DFIL is in agreement.
Your DH has no idea of what would be involved, otherwise, he wouldn't ask this of you.
(If, by any remote chance, he does know, divorce him!)

Remind DH that if he does this, he is going to be giving up his social life, his hobbies, etc answering all the emergency calls, cooking, cleaning and shopping, etc... because you have done your time with kids and are not starting again now. You have worked hard to enjoy your career and he is going to have to learn what it is like to have to drop everything at the drop of a hat to become a carer first and an earned second, because you are simply not prepared to do this again - and you are not going to be guilt-tripped into this.

It’s true that moving someone very elderly can be very disorienting, and it’s not just social networks etc. Speaking from experience, if they’re at all infirm, unfamiliar surroundings can really throw them - nothing’s in its familiar place - even things like a different cooker, or taps turning a different way can be difficult for them.

I’m very conscious of this since I have a pair of very elderly and not very well/mobile neighbours, who are just about managing where they are, where everything is so familiar. One of their children wants them to move closer - I honestly think it would just about finish them off - their dc doesn’t live very far away anyway.

Never mind all the faff of the actual move - is there a property to sell?Who would handle all that - estate agents and solicitors, packing up and the actual move? Maybe having to get rid of things if moving somewhere smaller? It’s a major hassle even when you’re young and fit.
Would your dh be prepared to see to all that?

The conversation I would have would be: let’s not talk about fil. Absolutely nothing to do with fil. You don’t have to talk, just listen. Your request has made me realise something. I always assumed that you recognised and valued the central role I play in holding our family together. That you were grateful that I take the daily load of parenting solo while working ft while Monday to Friday you do fuck all for your family apart from work. Now it’s suddenly been made really crystal clear that you don’t value One. Single Fucking Part of all I do for US. to enable you to keep in your job so that you dont have to quit because small children can’t look after themselves. You don’t value my getting them up in the morning and breakfasted and dressed and out to childcare before I start work. You don’t value my collecting the tired children and cooking dinner and doing bath and story and cuddles and bed. You don’t value all the night wakeups. You don’t value the cleaning and tidying to keep the house livable. You don’t give a fuck that the children are dressed and have clothes and we have food to eat and meals made from the food. You don’t give a rats ass that I fit my job into 9-5 to be able to do this. I never realised how much YOU DONT GIVE A SHIT ABOUT ME OR THE CHILDREN. When I look at you right now I see someone else and it’s not who I thought I was married to.

I suggest you take a week off. He has to take leave come home and look after the kids you piss off somewhere.

Was the decision for your DH to work away while you have three young children one that you asked for? Or was it one where you felt like it was the only choice (may be it was the job he did before you got pregnant) or you agreed to take on the burden for his sake?

Because it seems like he’s already getting out of much of his care giving responsibilities to his children and now he’s volunteering for additional caring that he expects you to take on.

To be honest, if I were in your situation I would probably be tempted to say something pretty blunt like: “I do not have the time to be a carer for your father, I am angry that you think it OK to expect me to do more for him than you intend to do yourself. And I won’t stay married to you if you take on other responsibilities that mean you do even less of the caring for your own kids than you do right now.”

You need to let your DH know that you are both unable and unwilling to take on minding your fil. The reality is that you have 3 small children, you work full time and meanwhile your husband is working away Monday to Friday.

If you're husband wants to move his father near to where you both live he should be looking to see what type of care, care homes, nursing homes ect are in your local area and then chatting to his father about this.

like hell I would do this. This will all be dumped on you.
Your dh doesnt even want to discuss it, how does he think it will work?
I would be prepared to end it if I was forced into this situation.

Tell him you'll gladly do it if you can quit your job... As that will be a full-time job and you dont have enough hours in a day to take care of your children, self, home, and work 2 jobs.

Wow tough situation. It sounds like your husband doesn’t/hasn’t thought about what your mon-fri taskload actually looks like.

Maybe when emotions have cooled down a bit try and sit him down and draw up a list of what he thinks you two can help his dad with if he moved closer, and a list of what you akready do atm.. it’ll become obvious to him (hopefully) that he will have to be the one to do the additional tasks as you simply cannot ..
Carework is not easy, plus you’re not trained and don’t have time really.. so hopefully he’s not being silly enough to expect you to take this on for his father.

Moving ful closer would be nice as it would allow him to visit more often, maybe help pick up groceries/food/medication or hospital visits.. but any ideas around reducing care visits and relying on you instead are just completely crazy

Well obviously this isn't going to work.

If your DH can't have a conversation about this then that is where to start. Have you tried couples counseling?

Your FIL will only get more and more needy as he ages. What's your DHs plan for this as FIL ages? I'm going to guess none as he hasn't thought this through.

I can see the merit of having FIL closer but perhaps in retirement village or something where there are activities and people available day to day. Then you and DH can visit on weekends.

However, it's all academic until DH can talk about this sensibly with you and look at solutions that are mutually acceptable...not just trying to strong arm you into committing yourself to being carer for FIL.

YADNBU you have no time as it is. Who is going to look after your dc's whilst you look after FIL in DH's plans?!

You work full time & do all the child rearing all week. Your weekends are for you to spend with your DC's op xx

As someone who has cared for both parents, with the help of carers, whilst also raising young children / infants, I implore you not to do this. I would not in my wildest of dreams have asked my DH to do anymore than sometimes watch our kids so I could be with my parents, and likewise I expect him to take responsibility for his parents when the time comes, ensuring that their needs are met but that we can cope as a family.

The sheer effort needed to manage FILs affairs will be overwhelming enough, neither of you will be able to care on top of it. Show your DH this thread.

Just so I understand this clearly ..

DH wants YOU to add to your already very busy life where you are effectively a single parent all week as well as holding down a full time job.. ?

Whereas he doesn't change his life at all because he 'can't change his Job' .. is that really 'can't' (because he's in the military and obliged to be there for a certain amount of time ) or 'won't'. (he likes it, the money is good, )

If the former then he is in know position to make these demands upon someone else without being prepared to make an equal commitment.
If the later then he needs to make sacrifices to enable this.. with a minimum starting point of a change of work patten (work is with him home every night)

I’d write a timetable of morning getting kids up, breakfast, dressed etc
Nursery drop
Work
Nursery pick up
Dinner, bath, bedtime

Then ask him when he envisions you helping his father.

I think he is reflecting his own guilt and blaming you. It doesn’t sound possible

Wow I'd find it hard enough if my partner worked away all week and it was just me let alone another responsibility added on top of that.

YADNBU. If he's a decent person, FIL wouldn't let you do this anyway. Surely that's we save for all our lives, to buy in care as we age. Not rely selfishly on family members with busy lives of their own.
I've had family members end up on anti depressants in a similar scenario and your DH should be prioritising your well being over that of his dad. He's the selfish, heartless one.

Tell him you'll gladly do it if you can quit your job

This is a terrible idea. Definitely don't make yourself financially dependent on someone who already thinks he owns your time

I haven't read the comments but I have read your OP bad subsequent replies OP

Basically, if I have this right, your DH wants to move his dad closer (fair enough) but won't be taking over the care needs of his DF. He isn't always working from the same place (I presume you are) and he isn't able to change his job yet (he could, presumably, quit and find a new job that is static and therefore be around for his dad). He could also go PT if his dad would be willing to make up a shortfall in wages to compensate, and not pay for carers coming in to help.

How exactly does he think a normal day would work - your young kids go to nursery so that you can work - you pick them up, do all the donkey work involved with kids, then sleep. When exactly will you have time for parental care?

Pick a line and stick to it until he's willing to have a conversation like a grown up and discuss the practicalities of his DF living close by.

I doubt that it would be doing your FIL any favours to move him away from his home area, local friends and everything that is familiar to him, particularly as it's virtually inevitable that he will only get more infirm and dependant.

I second the idea of getting your husband to take time off and take over all your responsibilities, and asking him to define when exactly you are going to find all this time to provide care to FIL.