Don’t know if I’m BU. Caring for elderly FIL.

[untiednations]

FIL is infirm but lives independently with care visits. He’s 200 miles from us and the journey can take 6 hours sometimes due to traffic and conditions. There’s no one closer to him who’s willing/able to help.

DH wants to move FIL down to a flat on our estate so we can be closer and help him more while also maybe reducing the amount of care visits FIL receives because we will take over. The thing is, it’s not us, it’s me. DH works away Mon-Fri. I work full time and we have 3 kids in nursery. I don’t know exactly what we can offer to FIL if he moves. During the week I go straight from work to nursery, get the kids then home, bath, bed for them. Dinner and chores then bed for me. I don’t have time or energy or childcare to do anything for FIL in the evenings. At the weekends, if DH is doing FIL’s care we won’t be able to do day trips or anything. Not go away for a weekend or whatever.

Every time I try to engage with DH about this he says I’m being heartless, imagine if it was my own father, I’ve got a closed mindset, I’m selfish, accusing me of wanting to keep FIL at arm’s length. This is absolutely not what I’m feeling but I’m very worried about the impact this move might have on my life.

AIBU?

Could he move closer but to a residential home? If he has the money there are some nice ones which are basically a flat in a building with a warden in case they’re ill, and carers can come in as much as he needs.
Alternatively my parents neighbour had a selection of live in carers so she could stay in her home. There are a lot more choices than just you doing the care, but having him closer at least would save you the long drives to go and see him.

If money isn't too big an issue moving him closer but keeping carers is the way to go - that way family can stay family and do family things rather than having to wipe bums and much food etc which I wouldn't do for anyone other than my own Mum (and even then we soon got carers sorted) -- not even my Dad if I am honest

@dismaldebbie

Well if you already do 6 hour round trips surely you'd at least cut those out if he moved closer? You say you don't have any time but you do those...?

Are you actually being serious?

@dismaldebbie

Well if you already do 6 hour round trips surely you'd at least cut those out if he moved closer? You say you don't have any time but you do those...?

Are you actually being serious?

^^This.

At the moment, DH literally cannot have a normal conversation about this

Well, at least you can tell him that nothing's going to happen until he learns to address this like a competent DULT

Oh, and if he expects you to help out, he'll also need to explain how you could do that when your time's already completely full

competent adult that should have said
Oh, for an edit feature ...

It's not possible for you to do care for him during the week because you would then need to have child care for your own children while you were at the fil house.

I agree with pp. 'fil can move nearer to us but I am not able to do any care for him during the week. My week is full.'

A nursing home close to you is a good idea.

Going to go against the grain a little bit here and say that I don't think either of you are BU (except from your DH calling you selfish, for that he was BU)

I can completely understand why your DH would want his dad closer to him and his family, that's the man who raised him and he wants to be there for him when he needs the care now, he probably feels guilty that he can't see him often with him being so far away.

I also agree that you wouldn't have time to provide care for him and shouldn't have to

However, I could never imagine telling my DP that he was being unreasonable wanting his dad closer and I would hope he would do the same for me. He's not going to be here forever and the last thing I would want would be my DP to be filled with regret of not getting to see him more.

As you've said moneys not an issue, I would say move FIL closer but still keep the same amount of care that he has just now, that way it's not falling to you to care for him and means that when DH is home and wants to visit him he can spend quality time with him. That sounds like the ideal compromise I would think

So what if it were your own father? You would work together as a couple to find a practical solution. You would still have the same number of hours in a day. Also--he isn't your father.

YABU. OP says ‘maybe’ reduce care. If money isn’t an issue, I’m not sure why you think there’s an expectation that it would all fall to you? His dad is unwell and he wants him closer for the time they have left together - this seems reasonable, natural and kind. You may have slightly fewer day trips than you do now but on balance what your partner, children and FIL would gain could make this worth it. Marriage is a sharing of joys and ‘burdens’. IMO your FIL is your family too. I think the real issue may be that with your husband away so much you already feel like you don’t have enough of his time and support and with his Dad around you’ll have even less. I think the two of you need to look at bigger picture family plans and decide together what the future will look like for your immediate family in the long term.

I can understand your DH wanting his dad nearer than 6 hours away for practical
Purposes of being on hand in emergency or spending time with him etc. Perfectly reasonable.

But why not transfer the care he already has if he moves? What would be the rationale for reducing that care and attempting to provide it himself (or yourself as he seems to suggest).
Is it financial?
Does your DH want to try and claim a care allowance?

You might be misunderstanding each other.

By care he might mean just being on hand and able to help with things like when he needs new clothes or has a hospital appointment-things that a typical care packages won’t do.

If he is genuinely suggesting reducing care visits and taking on showering or cooking or other personal care then it’s a no no and entirely unreasonable unless he could fully commit to it.

He will have to talk to you- calmly- as these decisions impact everyone and need to be agreed and discussed properly.

YANBU.

There are ways round this. If FIL moves nearer to you in a flat he could keep the outside support but it wouldn't be so far for you and DH to visit especially in a crisis.

Or FIL could move to a nice retirement complex near you where he will be cared for and meet new friends.

I'd be saying 'It's YOUR father, you can't leave it all to me!'
You certainly don't want to be giving personal care. It's undignified for a daughter in law to do that.

Marriage is a sharing of joys and ‘burdens’.

Which part of the burden of caring for his own father is the OP’s DH sharing? Because from what she’s saying he’s not proposing to be stepping up for that in any shape or form.

The biggest issue here is that the Op's DH works away Monday to Friday, so while it seems lovely that he wants his DF to be closer as he gets older, it's the OP who will be having that closer relationship with her FIL one way or the other, not her DH. The OP has three nursery age children with all the caring practicalities plus the emotional load, and works full-time and is essentially a single parent 5 days out of 7. Getting FIL settled, meeting his emotional needs while he does so plus setting up all his care requirements, medical needs etc etc ie managing his entire move for him will be intense but manageable if they can both be "on it" - if the DH takes a couple of weeks leave for example - and then hopefully a routine could be achieved and things settle down. But if the DH can't / won't do that it's a hell of a responsibility for the OP. And judging by the guilt tripping at her reservations, and maybe coloured by personal experience, the DH might feel guilty about not being there enough and it's funny how that can be transferred onto the other party and manifest as fault finding and also resentment that they may end up being closer or preferred by the elderly parent.

Depending on the personality types involved, family history and dynamics, this can be a whole other minefield......

YANBU

As others have said, being the carer for an elderly or unwell relative is hard going physically and emotionally. It is also time consuming. You already work and have 3 young children to care for- which you do by yourself during the week as your husband works way. You cannot add in a frail elderly relative to that- you would be exhausted in no time at all. It’s not fair on you and it’s not fair to your children who deserve to have parents who aren’t exhausted and have the the time and energy to do things with them. And it may well not be fair on your FIL- he will end up with an exhausted carer who is rushed off her feet, quite possibly without the knowledge or skills to meet his needs and is only doing it because of emotional blackmail.

Your FIL will only get frailer as time goes on too, which is something to bear in mind.

I think it’s easy when you are offering up someone else’s time- your DH is using emotional blackmail to get you to provide care to your FIL, to assuage his own guilt, and it’s not fair at all. Men often seem to assume that women will just step into the role of carer for elderly relatives, some of it is unthinking bias (especially in older generations because that was what was generally expected of women- not saying it is right, BTW). Often it is because it allows then the “feel good” factor of being a caring relative by ensuring the person gets care “from the family” (as opposed to a stranger) without having to lift a finger. They don’t realise that quite often the family member hasn’t got the resources (physically/emotionally, esp in the longer term) or skills to do what’s needed, particularly as the person becomes physically frailer and/or demential progresses. They also don’t seem to realise that when it comes to personal care it’s quite common to find the elderly person does not want family such as their children or daughter/son-in-law to do it- if only anyone bothered to actually ask.

I can see the potential benefit of your FIL moving closer to a relative (doesn’t have to be you- unless your DH is the only child) as he is so far away and it’s a lot of travelling for you (especially if you’re having to do it regularly)- BUT only if he either moves into residential care/very sheltered housing or his own home with a good package of care (I.e community alarm, help with personal care/meals etc but also someone to help with cleaning his home/laundry and so on). The latter option will not be cheap.

Another thing to bear in mind is that if he has a reasonable social/support network where he is then if he moves to be close to you, he will lose that network. This can be difficult to replace if you are older/frail- even more so if you can’t get out and about much (I don’t know how mobile/sociable your FIL is)- so he may end up quite lonely and rely on you/DH more than you anticipate. loneliness and loss of social interaction can also lead to low mood and so on. If he has dementia, the complete charge can sometimes cause a decline/make their problems more obvious as routines are changed, layout of the home etc is different etc. Moving someone is not always the best option- it CAN be, but it might not be.

I think you and DH need to sit down and look at the practicalities a do the pluses/minuses of each option. And your FIL’s opinion should be sought- assuming he retains capacity? I think you need to spell out what you can and are willing To do (no to full time/frequent care but ok for an occasional visit, for example). If DH won’t discuss it, then there is no agreement on your part and leave the ball in his court.

I don’t really see that. Neither of them can do any care during the week - he’s away; she’s got work and small children. He’s not said let’s move Dad in. They’re both around at the weekend, children will still need care; maybe he’ll want to be with his dad then. Which would be really hard as being alone all week, every week is already a big strain.

@jacks11

Spot on.

The biggest issue here is that the Op's DH works away Monday to Friday, so while it seems lovely that he wants his DF to be closer as he gets older, it's the OP who will be having that closer relationship with her FIL one way or the other, not her DH

But the OP married her husband, therefore, is still family and her DH is probably thinking he would rather his FIL be around family at this time rather than 200 miles away from them when he can't be there himself.

Could you not compromise and move FIL into sheltered accommodation nearby? Then he has someone who can take care of his needs and DH can spend quality time with him at weekends without it completely taking over.

Closer IS more practical. There will be times carers don't turn up, somebody needs to be there to deal with the boiler breaking down, the washing machine spewing water over the floor etc etc. There is a lot of life and medical admin and everything is easier when you're on hand.

However it really is very simple - you do not have any extra time in your day to be able to do any of this yourself. You must be run ragged as it is. He obviously needs to calm down enough to have a grown up conversation with you, and to work out practicalities together. If it were me I'd draw up a timetable of your week - what time you rise, every single activity in your day until you go to bed. It sounds like every hour is accounted for with children and running your household. Do the same for his week too, i know he won't be able to be there weekdays but it might help drive home the message of how much extra you do weekdays before and after work than him. He could pick up any post his dad gets during the week on a Friday night for example, and deal with any phone calls, bills etc around his work.

It might also help to have a list of things that need doing for his dad and that he might need in future, and how long each will take, so that you two can think about where it will slot in to either of your timetables (it won't). Maybe that will help him to digest the impossibility of the ask.

@violetbunny

Could you not compromise and move FIL into sheltered accommodation nearby? Then he has someone who can take care of his needs and DH can spend quality time with him at weekends without it completely taking over.

I think that would be the best option, if he agrees. He can have his own flat, but their will be a staff member available, if he needs help. He can also get helpers in, to help him with other things. I used to visit a couple in one and they loved it. Their flat was completely private, but because their was someone on the front desk, they felt completely secure.

@Lou98

Whilst I understand the sentiment, it’s not fair or practical. His wife is already caring for 3 young children on her own during the week whilst also working full time. How is she also supposed to take care of her FIL too? It’s all very well to want to have family provide care for his father, but if that’s the priority then YOU make changes to accommodate that- or better yet, you sit down with your family and come to a joint decision about the best way forward. What you don’t do is offer up everyone else’s time and then berate them for not doing as you demand.

What about the young children? They get an exhausted mother and possibly see even less of their father who works away during the week.

Well, we don't know how long OP and her husband have been married, nor how close a relationship they have at this point.

Being "family" is not a guarantee that these situations will work or appropriate - there are enough threads on here about nightmare in-laws of all stripes that prove that.

The current proposal will make DH "feel" he is doing the right thing and his DF may also "feel" it's great...... but that doesn't mean that the OP has to forego her perfectly reasonable "feelings" and have huge reservations about how facilitating these two people's "feelings" will be achieved in practical terms while she is working full-time and caring for three small children while her DH works away 5 days out of 7. Far better she is honest and sets boundaries now than she tries to "be nice" and then "feels" a failure because she's wrung out physically and emotionally and their family life has gone to pot. Because I can bet the first thing out of the DHs mouth will be "But why did you let it get this bad...."........

He's refusing to speak to her sensibly right now and is guilt tripping her already. This does not bode well for anyone in the situation.

If you go down the sheltered housing route, make very sure you know what services are provided. Some sheltered housing complexes have removed the wardens/wardens only part-time. Out with this is an alarm which is pressed/pulled- gets through to central office who then alert point of contact (I.e. next of kin/nominated person)- or call an ambulance if necessary.

Sheltered housing can be wonderful- a ready made community which can be great if you’re new - and some have regular social events organised (or did, prior to Covid). Some have daily lunches too. But this is not universal- some are just flats with the addition of a secure front door, some communal areas and an intercom to a central point.

Your husband is some cherky got to think he can bully/foist his obligations on you.

He's a right bully isn't he?🙄

3 under 5 with him... he's no prize...and he wants to dump his father on you, on top of 3 kids and a job...what a prince🙄🤐

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