to worry about giving up my job to be sahm

[allthemteeth]

First time mom. DD is 7 months old.

I'm due to return to work at the start of March 21.

I always thought I would go back to work and DD would go to a nursery, but now she's here my feelings have completely changed.

I couldn't imagine going to work all day and leaving her. I hate the thought of not seeing her all day and missing out seeing her grow and develop.

I've not been overly happy in my job for a while now, I've stayed because although I'm only on an average salary, I have the benefit of a company car.

DH has a much higher salary and also has a company car so we could quite comfortably manage without my wage.

The issue is, I've never not had a job.
I've always worked full time and I worry about giving up this independence.
We've always had joint money so it's not as if I will have to ask DH for money or tell him what I spend etc, but not contributing anything to the "pot" just makes me feel uneasy.

I also worry about the social side of not working. I do really like the people I work with and I think I'd miss not being around other adults every day.

It's not really an option for me to go back
part time. My wage would reduce dramatically and I'd pretty much be going to work just to cover nursery fees.

I know I want to leave my job and stay at home with DD but there's just this feeling of losing myself or my independence for doing it.

Has anyone else given up a job? Am I
making the right decision?

@Dozer

“Won’t it be a wonderful world if men can start working part time too and/or be SAHP just like women have had the opposite for decades”

If it was really such a great deal for PTers and SAHPs, far, far more men WOULD do it!

most fathers want to both be a parent AND retain their personal earning capacity/financial independence.

I made much the same point earlier in the thread and was told that it doesn't happen because women don't want their men to be financially dependent on them.

Which is probably true, but since when have men based their lifestyle choices around women's preferences? If being a SAH was so great, more men would choose to do it. In reality, very few do.

@IcedPurple this is a very contentious point, because clearly drivers behind man and woman parent roles are subject to huge and sometimes subconscious societal influence, but is it worth discussing that biology can in some cases (NOT all) exert an influence as well? I'm not commenting on rights or wrongs of that but not sure it can always be ignored in a conversation regarding equality

It seems to me that some women would like to be with their children all day, whereas some men would not find that fulfilling. For eg my DH said he would hate being a SAHP. Some of that will be due to societal dynamics and pressures but is it worth looking at whether there is a biological element as well in the way our brains are wired?

I know this is contentious but interested in discussing it. I'm aware there are many many women who aside from being financially responsible and sensible genuinely want to be in the workplace, and many men who may wish to be a SAHP but I'm looking at whether we can unravel the underlying cause of trends (which will be largely based on social norms but I'm wondering about other elements too in a complex matter)

Ladybrain

My DH and I are happy with our set up but he says when I want to go back to work I can

How generous of him!

Rain - I think that is a very interesting discussion too, but I’m not sure it will go anywhere on here unfortunately because there is only the the one true path of enlightened relationships and that’s the hallowed “50/50” model of one size fits all.

You might know full well that you’re wired differently to your husband - different instincts and motivations - but no, sorry this is not permitted.

It seems to me that some women would like to be with their children all day, whereas some men would not find that fulfilling. For eg my DH said he would hate being a SAHP. Some of that will be due to societal dynamics and pressures but is it worth looking at whether there is a biological element as well in the way our brains are wired?

Isn't it quite a new thing for mums to be around their dc all day? I know mums who worked out of the home were less common in yrs gone by but mothers in the past often had more dc, a lot more chores in terms of no modern appliances & less time eg no online shopping etc so I think a mum who paints & bakes with their dc/goes to baby yoga etc every day is quite a modern concept?

Gosh, @1ucia, you are really bitter about this, aren't you? Have you thought about just being a bit less concerned about what other people think? I've had some really shitty comments about my family set up (I can promise you that you really, really don't get universal, or even any, praise or approval if you both work) but I'm very happy about it so I can't imagine caring about it as much as you seem to.

@1ucia

Rain - I think that is a very interesting discussion too, but I’m not sure it will go anywhere on here unfortunately because there is only the the one true path of enlightened relationships and that’s the hallowed “50/50” model of one size fits all.

You might know full well that you’re wired differently to your husband - different instincts and motivations - but no, sorry this is not permitted.

Why do you keep coming back to a discussion that's clearly making you so cross? If you're happy and secure in your life, along with your 'hundreds' of similar friends, then what does it matter what random people on MN think? Or rather, what you insist we think?

I thnk someone - maybe you? - mentioned shoulder chips a page or two back, but your own is becoming increasingly obvious.

All a poster said was that maybe, as well as social factors, there might be biological factors at play in the way couples behave when children come along and the response to that is - “ladybrain ”

I mean, what’s that all about?

It seems to me that some women would like to be with their children all day, whereas some men would not find that fulfilling. For eg my DH said he would hate being a SAHP. Some of that will be due to societal dynamics and pressures but is it worth looking at whether there is a biological element as well in the way our brains are wired?

If women were 'biologically wired' to be 'fulfilled' by spending all day every day around children, then you'd think such a set-up would have been the norm throughout history. Instead, the idea that one person - almost always the man - goes out to work and the other stays at home, making no contribution to the family economy, only really became common around the 1950s.

Before then, wealthy women - the type of women who could easily afford to be 'fulfilled' by spending all their time with their children - never even considered such a lifestyle. They paid other women to care for their children and spent very little time with them. Poorer women, of course, always worked. Maybe not going out 9 to 5 every day, but by doing piece work at home, mucking out in the family farm or looking after other women's children. The notion that women are 'biologically wired' to enjoy spending years at home with their children seems highly dubious to me.

Had to give up work for reasons not of my choosing.
Money is fully shared and I don't feel like I have to ask for permission etc BUT I do all the wifework.
Anything to do with kids and household is entirely up to me.

It works for the balance of the family but it's not exactly my life ambition.
From comments at the beginning of the thread it might not be your husband who will suddenly find you boring, but you.

Before then, wealthy women - the type of women who could easily afford to be 'fulfilled' by spending all their time with their children - never even considered such a lifestyle. They paid other women to care for their children and spent very little time with them.

Exactly I thought this was the aspirational lifestyle for SAHMs, no work & childcare/nanny so you could still go the gym, have time without the dc etc

@thepeopleversuswork

That’s twice you’ve misrepresented my comment now. And you’ve called my comment boneheaded.

Not really sure what your motivation for lying about what I said so that you can be rude to me is but hey each to their own - but I think it’s pretty unpleasant of you.

You’re also being pretty hostile to the OP - only she knows her reason for leaving the thread you don’t speak for her. To be fair to her it’s now 37 pages long that’s a LOT of advice to read!!

@dontdisturbmenow

What I find harder to understand is what goes in a man's head when faced with this situation. Unless earning a very high salary, I can't understand how a man would be happy for his wife to stay at home with one or two children after they've started school, hence plenty of time for herself whilst he works hard k owing that at anytime, she could leave him and go for 50% if no more of what he's earned.

And this assumptive outburst is another example of sneering anti-SAHM rhetoric.

And it’s incorrect because:

1. Some men are happy being part of a mutually successful family partnership where there’s a fair division of labour, ample downtime and little stress. Ever heard of just being happy? If they can afford it, why not?

1. You have no idea what assets the woman brought into the marriage and/or earned prior to having children. Personally I was the main earner for 20 years, and paid off 80% mortgage before becoming a (very contented) SAHM.

I’d also add that a lot of women become SAHMs by accident because a child has SN, medical issues, school refusal, etc, or they themselves suffer health problems. And also because most part time work is so poorly paid that it really isn’t worth the childcare fees. And most jobs don’t stop for school holidays. And school hours are super short in U.K. And wrap around care is a shrinking expensive resource.

So, it’s a little unfair to preach choice and make negative judgments of SAHMs.

I don’t feel the need to judge anyone’s choices. Perhaps because I’m happy with mine?

Wealthy Victorian women thought it was extremely crass and undignified to look after one's own children. (I have to say, after having several salmon and lentil lunches sneezed on me and various poo explosions, I kind of saw their point.) In the 1950s, it was pretty much a given that women who stayed home needed drugs to get through it ("mother's little helper"). I'm not denying the reality of any woman who chose to stay home and loved it, but I'm sure as hell denying that it's some sort of lady brain that we're all hardwired for that and can't enjoy life any other way.

@ShebaShimmyShake

Wealthy Victorian women thought it was extremely crass and undignified to look after one's own children. (I have to say, after having several salmon and lentil lunches sneezed on me and various poo explosions, I kind of saw their point.) In the 1950s, it was pretty much a given that women who stayed home needed drugs to get through it ("mother's little helper"). I'm not denying the reality of any woman who chose to stay home and loved it, but I'm sure as hell denying that it's some sort of lady brain that we're all hardwired for that and can't enjoy life any other way.

Exactly.

Some women are fulfilled by being with their children. Other women are fulfilled by being corporate lawyers. Or teachers. Or nurses. Or by travelling around the world. None of these lifestyle choices are 'hard wired'. If they were, women would only choose one them. But they don't.

I wasn't suggesting that we are hard wired to have "lady brain" (a term which incidentally seems to imply that it's in some way inferior to want to spend a lot of time with your children) I was just curious about the impact of physiological drivers on motivation and behaviour like hormones, gene expression, brain structure etc

That's a good point about relatively recent society although as I've said societal expectations and culture and obviously have a huge influence on our drivers and so I wonder if pre modern society is a more useful indicator of gender predispositions? I've absolutely no idea how early humans spent their time though, I was just raising it for discussion

@1ucia

Sheba - the OP has not said anything though about how much her DH earns, only they her earns more than her. She has also said that she has a fairly senior role. We don’t know where they live or what their circumstances are - savings, mortgages, investments and so on. Nobody asked these most salient questions. It’s odd on MN because people seem to only be interested in a very fixed, one-dimensional view of families where there is a SAHM. They simply don’t want to hear that sometimes, it can work out. They won’t have it. When they say they want to hear from people of different backgrounds, really what they mean is they want to hear is only those cases where being a SAHM has been a disaster. If being a SAHM has worked for anyone, the familiar retort is “wait until he leaves you...” or “shut up, you’re too privileged / not typical.”

Just look at the kind of comment below -

“What I find harder to understand is what goes in a man's head when faced with this situation. Unless earning a very high salary, I can't understand how a man would be happy for his wife to stay at home with one or two children after they've started school, hence plenty of time for herself whilst he works hard k owing that at anytime, she could leave him and go for 50% if no more of what he's earned.“

There is so much misapprehension and misunderstanding. People just don’t get it! I just find this so odd. Surely it’s not that hard to understand?

Oh fgs. This is a general discussion. She asked us for advice, dismissed everyone who advised against it and then disappeared. That's her right, of course, but the discussion still continues and since, as you keep saying, we don't know everyone's situation, that's why we need a wide range of experiences. That's why you shouldn't demand that we all assume that all SAHMs have protected themselves or understand the risks. They're all different. I don't know where you're getting this idea that nobody wants to hear about happy SAHMs who are glad of their decision. We've heard from plenty of those. Someone made a point that a man might not like having a wife who doesn't work once the kids are in school. Why is that insulting? It's a fair point. A parent staying at home should always be a joint decision and once kids are in school, the role needs to be redefined.

You keep complaining that nobody accepts the kind of SAHM that you are (has anyone denied that you exist?) but you also keep saying that not all SAHMs have the same circumstances. We know you're not typical but I'm not convinced you understand just how not typical you are, and how few people relate to your experience. If you see people talking about SAHMs who never worked towards the family assets or don't have passive income...just accept that they're not talking about you.

In the nicest possible way, you are making this discussion all about you, and it isn't. As you say, it's about a wide range of people in different circumstances. Many of them would love to be in a position where their biggest complaint is that people don't know they've got a 20-strong property portfolio.

So, it’s a little unfair to preach choice and make negative judgments of SAHMs
Its not a negative judgement of sahm in general.

For one, there's a difference between sahms who go back to work when the youngest start school and those who are still sahm when the kids are late teenagers.

There's also a difference between sahm married to men who make very good money and those who struggle to earn enough to pay for all the bills.

Some men are happy being part of a mutually successful family partnership where there’s a fair division of labour, ample downtime and little stress. Ever heard of just being happy? If they can afford it, why not?
Why not, because they face losing more than half what they have earned including their pension when they might be happy in the marriage but their wife decide to go for another man. She almost inevitably get residency so he gets to lose being a ft parent too.

Ive been brought up that mothers and fathers should have equal responsibity to parent and finance the family and I've raised my kids the same way.

@IcedPurple that is very true. But there are certain jobs that are very male dominated and certain jobs that are very female dominated. This will largely because of cultural norms, social expectation etc but I'm interested in whether there is also a biological element. I don't know but suspect there is an influence even if a small one

(a term which incidentally seems to imply that it's in some way inferior to want to spend a lot of time with your children)

No, it's a term to highlight the absurdity of suggesting that one way of life suits all women.

But when did I suggest that? I took great pains to point out that all men and women will want different things (obviously, we are all so different) but wondered whether there might be some biological influence in effect. It's obvious this will be part of a huge number of things that make us who we are, and I also said probably at least secondary to the large influencing factor of cultural norms

And surely if I was inferring that all men and women are identical in their preset modes, then there would equally be "man brain"? Which I also wasn't saying

@MsTSwift

If you are so dim you need to be “taught in school” to do your own financial planning there’s no hope for you really.

You dont think that we should be teaching young people particularly girls about the implications of their future financial decisions at the point when they start to make important decisions about their lives?

I didn’t say I had a 20 strong property portfolio. You just take examples literally. In fact, I haven’t referred to my personal situation at all, unlike most people. I’m talking about what I see around me - in an area with a high proportion of SAHMs. If you doubt me on this, come to areas if SW London such as Barnes, Putney, etc and see the pram jam for yourself . I’ve had 4 DC going through school, so you obviously get to know most of the mums in their year groups and at primary level certainly, maybe 80% are SAHMs. I could speak for my neighbours, family friends and all sorts. None of them fit the MN stereotype of SAHMs. Yet SAHMs they are and as real as any other. I’ve been “at home” 17 years with 4 kids and no help. If I don’t know how it feels, I’m not sure who does.