Grandfather is being inappropriate around my dc

[Friendsoftheearth]

I feel quite sick writing this post, but I really could do with some guidance and advice.

My father was extremely abusive when I was a child both physically and emotionally. He would tell my brother and I that he does not like children, and only agreed to have them for my mother. I have no happy memories of my childhood with him at all. My mother stayed, she tried to leave a few times but did not in the end. I am very close to my mother.

Fast forward to now. I have a low contact arrangement with my parents. I could not go completely nc because it would mean never seeing my mother again, as she does not drive and it is difficult meeting her on my own as my father is always there (retired)

We did have to go nc for a number of years and it was extremely hard for me, I missed my mother so much. We have started seeing them again, but I am careful to keep the meet ups brief and 'light'. However the last few times my father has taken to saying the following to my teen dc (16 and 14):

What lovely legs they have, shape etc
Weight - asking them how much they weigh - this is a no go area with teen girls in my view even if they are not overweight
Describing one of them as dressed provocatively - his words (She definitely was not it was just a pair of normal shorts)
He forces them to cuddle him, they obviously don't like it
He makes spiteful jokes about their skin and spots - made my dd cry all of the way home
Makes fun of their eyebrows (no idea why)
Comments pretty much non stop on something or anything to do with them. One of them is vegetarian and he went on and on about it.

It took a lot for me to pull him up on his spiteful remarks about their skin, as I still feel some level of fear around him, and his answer was that we being over sensitive and can't take a joke!
My reply is that his 'jokes' are not remotely funny and are causing offence. You can't speak to anyone like that, especially not teenagers. He said we lack a sense of humour and everyone is being too fluffy, and the dds are turning into 'snowflakes'...

Am I being precious and over sensitive?
Am I right to stop him from saying these to my children? They are, by the way great fun most of the time but my carefree girls who usually have easy smiles and cheerful dispositions have grown to mistrust him, and they now look edgy around both of my parents now. The eldest is now refusing to go, I respect that of course.

Where do I go from here?

I love my mother dearly, but can not reach her because he is always there, they live 3 hours away, I can't just drop in. I can't seem to have a relationship with her without having to put up with him. They are talking about visiting again, and I don't want them to. Christmas will be next...

I don't want him anywhere near my children again.

Go to see your mum when they are at school in future. If she asks why say that he is horrible to your daughters and inappropriate and they don't like him. Be honest.

OP have you spoken to your DDs about your F and his behaviour towards you when you were younger?

I have told them everything, as they are now old enough to know the truth. I told them as I wanted to explain why we will not be seeing them very much/at all. I explained that I have made a decision to keep him away because of who he is, and he does not know how to treat people well. They were very accepting of my choice (to not see them) and have not missed it over the years.

Unfortunately we have no other family. Dh's family have since passed away, so it was a very decision to take away the only family we have left. My db lives miles away.

the mans an abuser and your mother was coimplcit in it-sorry to be harsh but thats how it is

if she wants to see her gd shes welcome to on her own-does she even feel bad about what happened to you

Can I also ask what changed for your to start (albeit low) contact again? You’ve said you missed your mum - completely understandable - but taking the DCs?

@Friendsoftheearth

Please protect your children - it’s a sign of how deeply damaged you are from your own upbringing that you’re even questioning whether this is wrong or not

Yes, because I question myself and my own judgement because he spent seventeen years hitting me, belittling me and terrifying me. He was an absolute monster actually, so compared to how he used to be, he does seem better. I am not sure I am explaining this well.

This IS his best behaviour believe or not.

Your mother is very lucky she is allowed a relationship at all with you let alone your dcs. I take it he never showed remorse. Has she ever apologised for what you went through?

Why can your Mum not meet you at a local cafe close to her?

Does he follow her everywhere she goes?

You can try to keep a relationship with her, however, he may make her life harder if you try to carve out this time for her with you and your DDs out of the house.

But yes, you need to cut all contact with him.

See them without your children if you must, but never make your children spend time with him again.

Could your mum come and stay with you for a week or so?

If your visiting then I'd pick your mum up and go out somewhere without your dad. Well if he doesnt control her.

It's a super hard situation as have relative who stayed in an abusive relationship and children cut them both out. The lady is the loveliest person but she doesnt have the strength to leave as she married him 16. It's very complicated situation a d I feel.for her

You need to stop all contact. My grandfather sexually abused me and it Started like this

Surely your dd's are old enough to stay home? Why would you get them to come along on these visits and subject them to your fathers abuse? If you want to carry on seeing your mother then that's up to you but leave your dd's out of it and protect them from that vile man.

this man is revolting abusive.

And that is 100 per cent his responsibility... Your mum sadly couldn't get away from him... you were badly abused by him.

This is so sad... I'm sad for you and your past...

Your instinct in right... Your daughters SHOULD HAVE ABSOLJTELY NO CONTACT with him.

He abused you and your mum, now he is abusing them...

And from what you've written here... He's gradually seeing what he can get away with... And he knows that he intimidates and frightens and hits women.

What message does this give your daughters?? Seriously??

The comments re weight /skin are massively inappropriate.

These comments are also sexualised.... He trying to dress it up as a 'joke'..

It's called plausible deniability....

It also means given your history zit makes you feel you don't know which way is up.

I'd set it out very clearly to your mum... Can you do it in person and you follow it up, if necessary with a letter setting out your reasons...

So they're her 'world' (and presumably you too...). Except not quite enough to propel her into leaving this appalling abuser...

OP I've been in this kind of situation and I would definitely go NC with him for your own sake and that of your DD's. Your mother does have a choice in this even if she finds it difficult. Can't she come to visit you alone without your father? She may not drive but can't she get a train/coach or something? Where there's a will there's a way as the saying goes. I wouldn't be getting involved in any of the drama or fallout.

It's a shame your mum couldn't grow the balls to leave him and save you from his abuse, but you have the choice not to put your own children through the same. I wouldn't bother with either of them personally.

Thank you for showing me the light, literally.

Now it is in black and white on paper/on the post it is obvious to anyone that he is just continuing where he left off.

I gave him a second chance, it was my mother's birthday. I wanted to see if after all of the years of no contact would have changed him/made him consider his words more carefully.

I can now see very clearly he has not changed at all. Not one bit, and he never will, and I am actually okay with that. My feelings for that man died a long time ago, even though he is my father. My girls will always always come first, and over my dead body will he see them again now.

I will take my mum out from now on, and see her alone. Why should I put up even seeing him after all he has done anyway?
When she asks where the girls are I will offer for her to stay, but we won't be every going there again. Nor is he welcome here.

I know it must come across as weak that I can not see this for what it is, but I am lucky to still be alive and I am doing my best to manage.

I saw a counsellor but she told me to forgive my parents and see them because not seeing them was upsetting me so much! How on earth do you find one that understands this kind of family dynamic?

Although your mother is undoubtedly a victim you cannot subject your daughters to this, it is sad but that is what the situation has come to. Go by yourself and I don’t see any point telling them why it has been 33 years and nothing will change, if you blame him he will use it against you.

Cant you go pick your mum up and take her to the park or a cafe or something instead of going to their house? Maybe even say the kids aren't going and it's just the two of you then bring the kids along so it doesn't cause arguments beforehand.

You need to keep him away from them.

You stop contact and you tell everyone (as in parents/kids, not the world in general) why. Yes there’s going to be fallout, probably on a nuclear scale, but if avoiding that is more important to you than keeping your girls safe then you need to reassess your priorities. He is not the sort of person anyone needs to be around and if he doesn’t like that then that’s his problem. Likewise your mother- she knows what he was like when you were a child and she’s with him anyway. They’ve made their bed and they might not like having to lie in it, but they’re going to have to.

I am nc with my dps. Dh with his. Our dc have no family except us.
Better than being exposed to abusive people.
Your dm is lucky you want to persevere with having a relationship with her.

PS could she get on a bus/train and come and see you solo??

I think any low contact with your dad means that on some level this behaviour is thought ok

I appreciate you love your mum deeply but sad truth is she failed to protect you.

No one sane thinks it is easy for women to recognise or leave abusive relationships but she has had support and opportunity and not taken it.

You can make different choices for your DDs.
They should never see him again.

You can decide to visit solo but do not involve them- protect them

Hi OP

Don't speak to him about it. He is never going to acknowledge how inappropriate and nasty he is, he will always dress it up as a joke / compliment and complain you're all being over sensitive. And then do the same again.

I can see you feel conflicted because of your mum but you can't keep subjecting your daughters to his nasty and abusive behaviour just to keep your mum happy because she is seeing them. It is selfish of her to want to see them, when it involves forcing them to endure nasty and sexually inappropriate behaviour.

You will have to stop seeing them again or see them on your own. I assume that he wont allow her to see you by herself, let her travel to you or something? Could you arrange something 'girly' that he doesnt like near to their house like shopping or a spa, that he wouldn't want to join in or would he accompany her just to control her?

One of your children is an adult and can make up her own mind, nothing to do with you. The other will be in 2 years time. I think in terms of protecting your kids, the horse has bolted. Going forward i would just carry on seeing your mum twice a year on your own IF that's what you want if no contact makes you happier go no contact.

Yes, because I question myself and my own judgement because he spent seventeen years hitting me, belittling me and terrifying me. He was an absolute monster actually, so compared to how he used to be, he does seem better. I am not sure I am explaining this well.

Your father is an abuser to the extent that you could still report him to the police - it's that serious.

Your mother isn't coming out of this too well, either.

I really am very sorry about your awful childhood, by the way. I think I may be projecting some of my own frustrations with my own parents' abusive 'parenting' on here and for that I do apologise. But this kind of damage travels down through the generations, and you don't want your daughters to resent you.

Your mother can act like the meek little victim all she wants, she chose every day, to not keep you safe, to damage you for life (my mother did the same thing), to allow her choice of male to abuse her child. She could have left at any point, but didn’t, and you were trapped. You’re free now, enjoy it. Go to the Stately Homes threads in the relationships section, book a counsellor, tell your scumbag parents whatever, it won’t matter, they’ll enjoy the drama and will make themselves be the victims no matter what words you use, so you might as well tell them they’re child abusing scum and there will be no access to you or your kids anymore. They made their choices, actions have consequences. Don’t engage, don’t justify, argue or defend, they’ll love it, there’s no excuse for their choices, so no argument to be had. Apologise to your kids for allowing them to be preyed on.

I’m glad you’re not going to have him meet with your dc again but what about your mum? Is she happy with him? Does she need support to leave him?

Can’t imagine what you’ve been though and are now facing. Love to you