Grandfather is being inappropriate around my dc

[Friendsoftheearth]

I feel quite sick writing this post, but I really could do with some guidance and advice.

My father was extremely abusive when I was a child both physically and emotionally. He would tell my brother and I that he does not like children, and only agreed to have them for my mother. I have no happy memories of my childhood with him at all. My mother stayed, she tried to leave a few times but did not in the end. I am very close to my mother.

Fast forward to now. I have a low contact arrangement with my parents. I could not go completely nc because it would mean never seeing my mother again, as she does not drive and it is difficult meeting her on my own as my father is always there (retired)

We did have to go nc for a number of years and it was extremely hard for me, I missed my mother so much. We have started seeing them again, but I am careful to keep the meet ups brief and 'light'. However the last few times my father has taken to saying the following to my teen dc (16 and 14):

What lovely legs they have, shape etc
Weight - asking them how much they weigh - this is a no go area with teen girls in my view even if they are not overweight
Describing one of them as dressed provocatively - his words (She definitely was not it was just a pair of normal shorts)
He forces them to cuddle him, they obviously don't like it
He makes spiteful jokes about their skin and spots - made my dd cry all of the way home
Makes fun of their eyebrows (no idea why)
Comments pretty much non stop on something or anything to do with them. One of them is vegetarian and he went on and on about it.

It took a lot for me to pull him up on his spiteful remarks about their skin, as I still feel some level of fear around him, and his answer was that we being over sensitive and can't take a joke!
My reply is that his 'jokes' are not remotely funny and are causing offence. You can't speak to anyone like that, especially not teenagers. He said we lack a sense of humour and everyone is being too fluffy, and the dds are turning into 'snowflakes'...

Am I being precious and over sensitive?
Am I right to stop him from saying these to my children? They are, by the way great fun most of the time but my carefree girls who usually have easy smiles and cheerful dispositions have grown to mistrust him, and they now look edgy around both of my parents now. The eldest is now refusing to go, I respect that of course.

Where do I go from here?

I love my mother dearly, but can not reach her because he is always there, they live 3 hours away, I can't just drop in. I can't seem to have a relationship with her without having to put up with him. They are talking about visiting again, and I don't want them to. Christmas will be next...

I don't want him anywhere near my children again.

Dear dear friends . You are incredibly perceptive and you KNOW intellectually what your mother IS and ISN'T. The combination of the two - what she is and isn't - doesn't make for an appealing person.

I'm sorry I've caused you pain, but I hope it's a pain that helps heal.

If it is that you are mourning someone who never existed, then the pain you may be feeling now could well be real raw grief. But not grief for your mother and who she is - grief for a profound loss of something you have needed and yearned for in your life.

It seems to me that your mum will never ever fill that hole. She's not capable and she was never capable. So maybe therapy is all about YOU, and exploring how you can work through that profound loss.

And the thing is, you know the value of that loss, because you are a good loving mother. Every time you care for your DCs, it's a reflection of what you didn't have. You can see, via the love and trust they have for you, the love and trust you didn't have and maybe yearn for in your mother.

From my reading, you have become a wonderful sensitive thoughtful caring person without that. Maybe you need to mourn, rather than talk about your parents and your relationship with them. Maybe, it's about finding a way to accept, and move on. Maybe you need to howl and let the anguish out.

When you were 11, your mother needed you. It's your turn now. You need your DH and your DCs. I still have a deep suspicion that if you talk to your DCs - from a slightly different angle - you may realise that their rejection of your mother is based on who she really is. I suspect they can sense her manipulativeness, as well as know it from her behaviour.

Your opening words about your mother "I love my mother dearly" ... you need to explore if that love is based on who she is - who your DCs see - or who you really want her to be.

The other thing that's coming through is 'rejection'. Rejection is brutal. From a mother, I would call it emotional abuse. You get love-bombed, reeled in, then rejected. Repeatedly it seems. Your description of your mum seeing you as a "clingy child" is so painful to read. Honestly, the things I'd like to say to her!

But you don't deserve that. Even without knowing you, there is no way you could have ever done anything to deserve this.

The other thing that occurs to me is if you can reconcile yourself with this awful loss, then it may ironically open up a space for a relationship with your mother based on who she really is. It would be a very different relationship to the one you have now, and you may find your mother disappears because it doesn't fulfil her parasitic needs. But you would be prepared for that.

I wish you strength and courage. I hope therapy helps. I'm not going away.

She is as toxic as he is. Expressed in very different ways, but both very very damaging. Her inability to comfort you when you are unwell is breathtaking. Maybe your father has broken her too, maybe she was already broken to start with. Who knows?

You seem to be a very kind thoughtful person. I hope your dh and dds can look after you tonight.

My mum isn’t talking to me at the moment and Im not calling her either. It felt very strange to start with, but actually I feel a lot freer, less crap to process once the phone call ends.

choccie You really haven't caused me pain, the situation has caused me pain. Your posts are very helpful, and supportive and insightful. I had to pull back last night, I felt quite overwhelmed with it all.

Dreams are boring, but last night I had a dream I had a baby, and I wasn't looking after the baby at first, but then suddenly I realised I was capable of caring for it but removing all the 'restaurant' bookings and things I was supposed to be doing. I made space and then started looking after the baby properly, addressing its needs.

It felt like a good dream, and one a therapist would have a field day with no doubt! But I woke up feeling refreshed and like it is all going to be okay strangely. I cried myself to sleep last night with another night of FOG so I am surprised to feel so happy today. I have come through worse, this is not the worst situation, so will allow it all to just be. In the meantime I am doing the 100 day christmas challenge of self care and that is helping no end.

com I am pretty sure my parents have been on the receiving end of less than perfect parenting, and I have some degree of empathy that they may have felt lost themselves as parents. It is why I have been so forgiving of them in the past. Believing they were doing their best with the resources they have has been quite liberating in itself, but once someone openly abuses your child, they stop getting the benefit of the doubt.
I am sorry your mother is to talking to you either, it is hard isn't it. Take the time to get on with other things, see other people and let things settle.
I am not sure the reasons, but I don't believe it to be a kind thing to do unless they have said I am taking a few days out to think about this/that, process etc. Some people need time out for all sorts of reasons, and that is fine, it becomes negative for others when they are unsure of why it is happening, and misunderstand or feel hurt by the silence.

I didn't see the deleted message?

Thing is, there's lots of really useful stuff on this thread from other posters. It'll be a shame if it all goes.

I certainly haven't asked for your post to be deleted, I didn't even get a chance to read it!

I am not sure of your motivations to make me look dishonest in some way, I have nothing at all to hide. So it makes me wonder who you are, and why you would do that.

I started this thread to get some support and advice, I have had amazing help from so many people - pretty lifesaving stuff actually - and perhaps if you knew me in RL and knew what the last couple of days have been like, you probably wouldn't be trying to make things worse. If you can't help then please go on to another thread, I can do without more stress to be honest.

have you crosschecked this @Handsoffisback ?

because when you search for a username on the phone app all threads where a user has commented on come up so this can cause some confusion.

Do you realise how de-railing your post is for a thread that has brilliant advice and might be beneficial for a lot of people?

I have just checked every single message now, and I can not see a single contradiction. Not one.

Don't see them again.

Sad to say but your mother has made her choice.

OP your dream sounds interesting

Dreams are boring, but last night I had a dream I had a baby, and I wasn't looking after the baby at first, but then suddenly I realised I was capable of caring for it but removing all the 'restaurant' bookings and things I was supposed to be doing. I made space and then started looking after the baby properly, addressing its needs.

Might it be that the baby is your inner child and you are finally looking after your needs?

Friends, after you made yourself very popular on the same travel post we have been on with your extremely high handed comments to numerous posters, as you do know the fact you weren’t being honest became completely clear.

Just out of curiosity & because things just didn’t add up (quite honestly it looks like 2 separate people are writing your posts!) I took a look at your other comments this month.

It’s not really in anyone else’s interest to get my earlier post deleted. However, all these comments from you exist and can be screen shot and posted if you want challenge any of this. Complete contradictions include:

• Your mother is a distant, uninterested grandparent who’s lack of interest in your DC hurts you/DM is a very fond grandparent who loves the DC & regularly texts them

• You are a SAHM who volunteers/you are a yourself/‘we are in Financial Services’. The last might not mean you directly work in FS yourself but does imply you do!

• No way are you taking a holiday overseas in 2020 - it’s against the greater good. You have taken U.K. holidays only this year. (Separate thread) You were in France in Spring & the Covid paperwork was a pain.

-You had August flights booked to France/ (separate post) you were driving to France as flying was irresponsible/ (separate post)anyone going to France was deliberately putting the U.K. at risk/ (separate post)you were worried about the quarantine hassles for your French mates on their way over to the U.K. to see you would have to face.

• In separate posts in the last 10 days, although you have on numerous occasions made a big thing about how you will only take UK only holidays this year (except the Spring trip to France presumably?!), you have also said in separate posts that you have holidays booked in October. One says to Florence, another says to Copenhagen and The Netherlands, another says France. If all these posts are true and you aren’t being dishonest then that’s 4 holidays you’ve got booked for October, 2 months off. With 2 kids at school??

• Your DH’s family are all dead so avoiding them isn’t an issue /(separate post) you are very close to your Brothers in Law (plural)

‘You are yourself a Key worker’ - not ‘you are yourself’

This is extremely worrying and I would cut contact with him. Protect your girls. I was sexually abused by an uncle and this was exactly the way he acted around people. Grabbing me for a cuddle whilst making fun of my spots. It's eroding their boundaries. He knows you still go round because of your mother and he is probably using this against you. Go with your gut and keep your daughters far away from the dirty old man! Your mum might feel bad but imagine how life destroying that would for your daughters. They are your priority. I'm sorry your in this situation but you have a choice to remove yourself whereas your children can't.

@Tigersneeze, do feel free to cross check! It’s time consuming but all of the above were posted by Friendsoftheearth on numerous separate threads over August so far. Unless there is someone out there with exactly the same handle (which Mumsnet does not allow), then they all come from Friends.

I tried to give support earlier on this thread, I felt sympathies due to my own personal childhood traumas. The response from OP raised suspicions to me, something a bit off that I couldn’t put my finger on.
Thanks SJane, a reminder for me to be more careful who I extend support to.

This is pretty surreal sj that you have chosen a thread about child abuse to raise your issues, but I will absolutely answer your points one by one, not because I feel I owe you anything at all - because your intentions are clearly not helping anyone, but because I wish to ensure that every person that has taken the time to help me on here does not think I have lied to them in any way whatsoever:

our mother is a distant, uninterested grandparent who’s lack of interest in your DC hurts you/DM is a very fond grandparent who loves the DC & regularly texts them

I have stated quite clearly on this thread, that my mothers loves her grandchildren, this is NOT a contradiction in any way. My mother is sporadic, sometimes completely disinterested in them (she spent nearly a year not contacting any of us, including my children) other times texting them constantly to tell them that she loves them. This is completely true.

So I do not accept your point at all, because it has been spoken about at length already.

You are a SAHM who volunteers/you are a yourself/‘we are in Financial Services’. The last might not mean you directly work in FS yourself but does imply you do!

I am volunteer (A keyworker when the term was applicable) that is true, my dh is in FS and he often needs my help with his work - I am qualified in an area that is helpful to him. How is this a contradiction? And what has this got to do with my family situation exactly?

I don't see what my holiday plans (that were all cancelled!) have got to do with the issues I have with my family. It has nothing at all to do with the issues I am discussing here. I am not going to go over my cancelled travel plans, because it has nothing to do with this thread.

Lastly, my dh's parents and brother are both dead. You have just confirmed what I have already said in all of my posts.

You have tried very hard to dig around and discredit me SJ why would you do that? Especially as not one of your points are valid or true.
Just for the record if you have the time, please feel free to look up any message of mine.

I am not going to let you upset me, or to undermine me in any way. I have received some amazing advice on here. I am grateful to those that have helped me through this. I definitely can not thank you for derailing the thread to make a point about cancelled travel plans though.

Actually SJ by putting all of my posts together, you have made this very outing, was that your intention?