Page 15 | My boss essentially warned me for racial insensitivity - aibu?

BubblyBluePebbles · 04/09/2020 03:04

@Bluntness100

I have read numerous of your other responses to other posts, as you're prolific on MN. I previously thought that some your responses were quite funny and that you had a GSOH, but your responses to this post on race has changed my view (not that you care about what anyone else thinks).

BubblyBluePebbles · 04/09/2020 03:05

@Notredamn

'I think white people are willing for discussions on race and I've always found MN to be intolerant of racists. There are certain threads which come up time and again and I nearly always feel backed up by the number of MNers who hand racists arses to them on a platter.'

Really!? 😆

BubblyBluePebbles · 04/09/2020 03:10

Racism is not just about the shade of one's skin 🙄

No one actually has black skin, just like nobody has naturally black hair - it's all brown (skin & hair) and manifests itself in differing shades, even amongst siblings who share the same parents. It's DNA!

Black people is a term that includes all POC, regardless of whether or not non-White people with a lighter hue wish to identify with being referred to as Black. It is up to the individual to decide if they want to identify themselves as Black, POC, Brown, BAME, etc.

BubblyBluePebbles · 04/09/2020 03:24

I'm a sociable person, but sometimes generally do not like people due to having to deal with the type of people who spout the type of BS we've seen on this thread.
The key is to try to not take any of it personally. Take it as a life experience to add to the other good and bad experiences that will come your way. It all helps to make you become a wiser person.

Your Dad just wants the best for you. Your Dad's generation kept their heads down. Clearly, this has not helped to improve the situation over decades or centuries. Please continue to speak up for yourself and others. And never ever apologise for speaking YOUR truth.

It is evident that many people on this thread hear you and understand you.
I've most definitely become wiser due to reading and participating in this thread, so thank you for posting and sharing YOUR LIVED experience 💐
I'm also sorry that you had to go through that and the negativity and ignorance of some of the posters on this thread.

You come across as an intelligent and decent person with your head screwed on, so just keep on doing what you're doing. And yes, your experience was unique to you, as you were there and likely to be the only person on this thread present. We all are unique. Everybody. Just like all lives should matter the same as everybody else's, but unfortunately right now and as it has been the case for centuries, they don't 😶

BubblyBluePebbles · 04/09/2020 03:28

@Sakalibre
My last post above was for you 🙂

*I'm a sociable person, but...

timeisnotaline · 04/09/2020 03:31

This is very difficult to judge. On the one hand you kind of are being made a victim here by being pulled out by your boss.

On the other hand when I hear a woman at work say there’s no disadvantage, women can achieve just as much these days and that stuff doesn’t matter any more, look at me for example, I think what a twat. You made it, great for you and your ‘I’m alright Jack’ attitude. Is this a bit similar? You say you are the only non white in your team, why is that? Because there haven’t been any qualified people till you? (Hint- Thats obviously not the case)

WordWarrior · 04/09/2020 03:58

@Sakalibre Hi. Firstly, I think the point of the presentation appears to have been that it was more of a negative bias information video, than an informative video about racism, possibly put together by people who don't seem at all sensitive to the issues in it, given your Manager's reaction to your objection at being labelled a victim. Secondly, I think that the fact you're the only brown female member of staff at your work, says more about obvious inherent racism there than anything else - It sounds like the company had to employ a female brown-skinned employee, so as to be able to tick the 'ethnic minority group' box. Finally, as a middle-aged white man myself, who not only values Women, but also anyone who is told to accept themselves as a 'victim' of any particular group, I find your Manager's attitude appalling and rude, not to mention insensitive and racist ! - If possible, I suggest you try to find a better employer to work for in the future - One who doesn't just employ a majority of white men, where all races, sexes and ethnicities are represented, in equal numbers. I'm not suggesting you leave because you're the minority, but it's clear that you're not likely to be allowed to express your opinions at your current workplace in future, or have any of your suggestions or ideas taken seriously by the management there. I just think from your Manager's point of view, you've stepped out of line, and now you've been put back in your place, where he wants you to stay, silent and obedient. I agree that it's unfair, but staying in an organisation like that will likely undermine your confidence and creativity skills. I'm sorry that this has happened to you, and I hope you find somewhere you can thrive.

lboogy · 04/09/2020 04:30

It's a shame that a white man had to educate you on racism. From your updates, it sounds like you desperately needed that telling off.

Just because you individually have not experienced racism or feel you have been the victim of it, does not mean it doesn't exist.

And I'd venture to guess that you probably pass for a tanned white woman despite describing yourself as 'brown'. Colourism is a thing you should look up. It might explain your evident ignorance of racism.

Pegase · 04/09/2020 04:41

@Sakalibre I understand where you are coming from. I would have felt uncomfortable too in that presentation as a BAME person with thankfully limited experience of racism. Doesn't mean systemic racism doesn't exist but clearly not every individual BAME person has been held back by their race or is a victim compared with the group as a whole.

PP who said black includes any person of colour I respectfully disagree. Again just my perspective but I and, I strongly believe, others of my race just would not identify as black. Kind of shows the whole issue with the BAME grouping really- are there more differences or similarities between the experiences of a Black British person, a Moroccan person working in the UK, a Chinese British person, a third generation person of Indian heritage etc?

BubblyBluePebbles · 04/09/2020 05:04

@Pegase
Which is why I also stated:
'It is up to the individual to decide if they want to identify themselves as Black, POC, Brown, BAME, etc.'

Some people like to jump on the Black bandwagon when it suits them. Some would never.

I personally do not like the term BAME, as this includes people of many races, cultures and ethnicities who do not share similar experiences under the umbrella term of BAME.

BubblyBluePebbles · 04/09/2020 05:05

@Lweji
Thanks for the informative Guardian link. Was a good read.

BubblyBluePebbles · 04/09/2020 05:14

lboogy
'It's a shame that a white man had to educate you on racism. From your updates, it sounds like you desperately needed that telling off.

Just because you individually have not experienced racism or feel you have been the victim of it, does not mean it doesn't exist.

And I'd venture to guess that you probably pass for a tanned white woman despite describing yourself as 'brown'. Colourism is a thing you should look up. It might explain your evident ignorance of racism.'

What?
I rest my case!

Grannyspecsandslippers · 04/09/2020 06:52

In these situations I ask myself would the person speaking have had the same thing to a white man their own age? It’s pretty failsafe, as a woman in a male dominated profession I’ve been patronised a lot over the years, particularly as a young woman. And the answer is almost always - no they wouldn’t.
So you have 2 choices - let it go and chalk it up to your manager being a bit of an arse for an easier life.
If you feel strongly though, speak up now and set your stall out early.

TheFuckingDogs · 04/09/2020 06:53

Hmm ok so “I was in a lecture about feminism/ discrimination of women- I was the only female in the lecture. At the end I spoke up about how I personally didn’t like to be viewed as a victim because I’m a woman. The lecturer then spoke to me about how this was ok as my personal opinion but actually not that relevant as I had completely missed the point of a whole movement feeling oppressed over generations and generations. I argued that maybe other women like to feel like victims/are ok with that but I’m not.”

Does this scenario change anyone’s response? 😊

eatsleepread · 04/09/2020 06:54

Ridiculous. Hope you're ok ... and YANBU.

Pegase · 04/09/2020 07:19

@TheFuckingDogs see I think it depends on how it was presented. We weren't in OP's training session so can't know. Is it about history of oppression- fine though bit unusual in a work context. Is it about unconscious bias and recognising we can all have them - fine. Is it telling people to watch their behaviour in the workplace because certain categories of people can be victims- a bit of an odd way of going about it.

I could be wrong but I don't think OP is denying the systemic racism but it sounds to be like the way it was presented reinforced the power imbalance rather than trying to tackle it.

Wherehavetheteletubbiesgone · 04/09/2020 07:32

As a white middle aged man I am rather happy that feminists are being taken to task for not being woke enough by trans activists and now it seems like strong and successful BAME individuals are taking flack for not being woke enough about their own cause (Priti Patel has experienced this for years). For years we have been told we are by virtue of our sex and ethnicity racist misogynists who are privileged despite what the statistics actually show and despite how people actually behave. Today's wokeism will move onto something else tomorrow and that group will no longer be centre of attention and they will hate it (like feminism and trans rights). So YANBU hold your head high let the world get obsessive about today's woke cause tomorrow they will be history. Learn to bite your tongue as we don't have free speech in this country (as a BLM activist happily told me the other day) if you speak outside of the woke hand wringing someone will take offense and carry on being successful and happy on your life.

Lweji · 04/09/2020 08:07

@TheFuckingDogs

Hmm ok so “I was in a lecture about feminism/ discrimination of women- I was the only female in the lecture. At the end I spoke up about how I personally didn’t like to be viewed as a victim because I’m a woman. The lecturer then spoke to me about how this was ok as my personal opinion but actually not that relevant as I had completely missed the point of a whole movement feeling oppressed over generations and generations. I argued that maybe other women like to feel like victims/are ok with that but I’m not.”

Does this scenario change anyone’s response? 😊

Not mine. Because the OP didn't seem to complain in relation to herself, but said that "some non-white people could take offense", thus trying to speak for others.

But also because being a woman is something that is equal to all women.
But being "non-white" is not the same for all "non-white".

I'm still curious as to what the OP really said, though. Because it could easily have been construed as "this is all bulshit".

Language matters. And as the OP objects to the term victim in relation to herself, how she framed her criticism may be key to the response she got.

Lweji · 04/09/2020 08:11

For years we have been told we are by virtue of our sex and ethnicity racist misogynists who are privileged despite what the statistics actually show and despite how people actually behave.

I wouldn't say white men are racist misogynists, but I'm very interested in what statistics and behaviour you're referring to.
Are you saying that there's no racism or misogyny among men, and in our Western society? Or just that "not all men"?

TheFuckingDogs · 04/09/2020 08:30

Yes Lweji good points - I also am curious as to what the OP actually said however I suppose we will never fully know

TabbyStar · 04/09/2020 08:47

YANBU, there seems to be a right way and a wrong way to have "lived experience". I got into an argument online with a couple of middle class women who said "this organisation is only for white, middle class women". I pointed out that no, there were some black and brown women there and also some working class women, and ignoring us (I'm white working class) was also racist and classist, completely invisibilising us. I did get the point that it was predominantly white / middle class but I'm sick of virtue signalling people pretending to stand up for me but not listening to me stand up for myself. I was told to check my privilege and given a very patronising lecture but there seems to be no getting through. I've given up saying anything about my experience, which makes me feel crap (although I do still challenge obvious discrimination, I just don't talk about the more nuanced stuff).

Aridane · 04/09/2020 09:17

On the other hand when I hear a woman at work say there’s no disadvantage, women can achieve just as much these days and that stuff doesn’t matter any more, look at me for example, I think what a twat. You made it, great for you and your ‘I’m alright Jack’ attitude. Is this a bit similar?

Spot on

cologne4711 · 04/09/2020 09:34

@lboogy

It's a shame that a white man had to educate you on racism. From your updates, it sounds like you desperately needed that telling off.

Just because you individually have not experienced racism or feel you have been the victim of it, does not mean it doesn't exist.

And I'd venture to guess that you probably pass for a tanned white woman despite describing yourself as 'brown'. Colourism is a thing you should look up. It might explain your evident ignorance of racism.

What a horrible post.

Aridane · 04/09/2020 10:02

I don’t think it is

Abitofalark · 04/09/2020 15:43

OP: I've read a few hundred posts and still don't know who gave the presentation. I may have missed it. It's an important consideration, relevant to forming an opinion and giving you my interpretation and sense of what you should or shouldn't do.