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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

My boss essentially warned me for racial insensitivity - aibu?

375 replies

Sakalibre · 16/08/2020 14:24

Firstly, my maternal grandparents were born in Morroco and my paternal grandparents were born in India.

I'm in my 2nd year of a grad scheme (financial services).

Last week, we were given a presentation which addressed systematic racism in relation to the BLM movement.

I am the only female in my team of 15 and the only person under 30 so have a unique perspective.

At the end of the presentation, I very sensitively and tactfully stated I personally do not like being viewed as a victim purely based on the colour of my skin. I tried to say this in a constructive way that some non-white people could take offence to some of the things that had been stated in the presentation. I emphasised this was just an opinion

Anyway, I had a 1 to 1 meeting with my line manager following this presentation and I was given what can only be described as a very stern telling off. I tried to explain my position but he was having none of it. In the end, I actually apologised to him. Which I regret now.

Over the weekend I've given it all a lot of thought. Why should my feelings be discounted? Why shut down the conversation?

WIBU? Should I go over this again with my boss tomorrow?

OP posts:
QuestionMarkNow · 16/08/2020 19:49

@Sakalibre

I really don't know what to do! Earlier today I was intent on discussing the issue further with my boss as I feel my nuanced perspective could be useful but ultimately I'm pretty sure anything I have to say is going to fall on deaf ears.
I can see why @Sakalibre. But at the same time, I feel sad that this thread has somehow managed to put off raising the issue :(
queenofknives · 16/08/2020 19:49

@Hadjab

As a black person, I have to say this is the most fucking ridiculous thread I've read in a while. Racism is racism, whether you're brown or white. If somebody states their parents were born in India, then the likelihood is, what with the end of the fucking British Empire and all, that their parents are not white. Contrary to popular opinion, we don't like being portrayed as victims, so if a non-white person comes here and tells you that that's how she's being made to feel, in the name of equality or whatever the fuck, then believe her, FFS.
Exactly this!
TheMumblesofMumbledom · 16/08/2020 19:53

@Hadjab

As a black person, I have to say this is the most fucking ridiculous thread I've read in a while. Racism is racism, whether you're brown or white. If somebody states their parents were born in India, then the likelihood is, what with the end of the fucking British Empire and all, that their parents are not white. Contrary to popular opinion, we don't like being portrayed as victims, so if a non-white person comes here and tells you that that's how she's being made to feel, in the name of equality or whatever the fuck, then believe her, FFS.
As a white person I applaud this.

I have no right to tell a non white person how they should think or feel.

Bluntness100 · 16/08/2020 20:01

Interestingly you’ve still not stated what your bosses issues was, other than your title where he has said you were racially insensitive.

Quite frankly are you sure you know ethnicity and heritage of everyone in your team? Are you going only by their skin tone? Do you know the ethnicity of their families. Their husbands their wives, maybe even their fostered or adopted children, their nieces and, nephews? Do you know where they grew up, where they went to school, who they lived with?

My friend is white, born and bred in London, she does not look racially ambiguous. Dark hair and pale skin. She has a Greek father and an Indian mother. Unless she told you you’d not know by looking at her . Another friend is also white, as are her parents, her sister married a black man, and her children, so my friends nephew and nieces are black. My daughters friend looks as British as they come. Her mother is Asian and her father is British, she spent many years living in poverty at a school where everyone’s second language was English, and she Excelled. One of the very very few.

Bottom line is whatever you said, your boss has said you were racially insensitive. And I can see where he is coming from. Every post is about you and your uniqueness. Whilst dismissing everyone else as Male, white and over thirty.

You seem to be making assumptions based on skin tone. Which is racially insensitive in the extreme, I refuse to believe you know the heritage and ethinicitt and wider family heritage of every single member of your team.

So I’d take a step back and stop focusing so much on you and your family circumstance and try to think of the other people in that room. Who they are, and don’t judge them by the colour of their skin, like you have done here, because unless you’ve met every one of them extended family your assumptions could be highly erroneous.

And as for your perception being unique. Every one of us has a unique perception. Due to our age, our heritage, where we grew up, our gender, even our class, our friends, our family.

You need to remember that when you look at a room full of people, you cannot judge them on the colour of their skin, and decide you alone are unique Because of it, then preach about victimisation, because when you do, you’re going to face situations like the one you’re know facing at work. A situation where you may rightly be guilty of racial insensitivity.

Sakalibre · 16/08/2020 20:05

"Every post is about you and your uniqueness"

Really?

Why are so many people taking exception to my use of the word unique?

OP posts:
AncientRainbowABC · 16/08/2020 20:08

OP I think you’re right to be mulling this over as you are. Your opinion is valid, and it matters. The word “nuanced” is key here.

I don’t have any advice but wanted to share my experience in case it helps shape your thinking. I am in my mid thirties now, have worked my way up to a reasonably senior level in a professional career. When I was in my mid-20s, a manager took against me based on where I’m from. I look white but I’m not “English” as she had initially assumed. She made comments, made other people at work aware of the “difference”, soon the while team was making “jokes”. I felt singled out and complained to the next boss up, who was black. He told me it’s not racism if it’s against a white-looking person. Even though he agreed if similar had been said about a black person that would be racism. I stopped complaining and moved jobs.

Five or so years later, I acquired a disability. It wasn’t a visible one but it affected a lot of my life and some of my work like trips abroad. A very “right on” woman boss, who was huge on women’s issues in the profession etc, took me to one side and said that I was “a good one” and could go “all the way” so her advice was to keep quiet about my disability and associated hardship until I got to a senior role. Or it would damage my prospects. I stopped openly saying stuff.

Having just spent a year on mat leave, I am so disappointed I didn’t speak up more. I watch other people raise the same issues I’m my workplace now. I watch the same token diversity training, and the people delivering it thinking they are saving the world. I’m under no illusion that I may not have changed much by saying something, but now I feel I could have maybe made a tiny dent. I wish I’d written or spoken to the bigger bosses, or carried on being good at my job but also remained a little awkward. Even if they’d given me company dogma, something, somewhere, might have stuck. And the next time there was an issue like mine perhaps they’d have remembered mine. Or perhaps even a careerist senior leader might have picked it up. At the very least, I’d had felt like I tried. Jobs and companies change, but these sort of experiences stay with you. It’s all very individual and personal, but in the end all we can do is act in our own circumstances.

jewel1968 · 16/08/2020 20:09

I would write to your boss and explain your position in the way you have here (and borrow some narrative others have shared that resonates with you). Be clear in your written communication that you are a racial minority and felt that your legitimate concerns about the diversity material being used was ignored and worse -critised. State that you feel this was and is racially insensitive of your boss and you will be contacting HR to discuss. Explain how their actions have made you feel and how upset you have been. Perhaps take the time to explain to them that racial minorities are not one homogenous bunch that feel the same as there is much diversity.

How irritating and frustrating for you....

Barbie222 · 16/08/2020 20:11

It's difficult to call as you haven't given examples but it could have been seen as you standing up and making it about your experiences, rather than listening to the voices and narratives in the presentation.

Sometimes there's a time to listen and not to chip in and I say that as someone who is mixed race myself. But difficult to judge.

Sakalibre · 16/08/2020 20:12

QuestionMarkNow - it's not just the thread. I spoke to my dad earlier and he essentially told me to keep my head down and avoid being labelled as "difficult" in order to get on.

OP posts:
Bluntness100 · 16/08/2020 20:17

Why are so many people taking exception to my use of the word unique

Because everyone is unique op, but you’ve written off your team as simply nothing but one humongous mass, who have no perceptive on this subject. I am going to assume you are simoly very young, and got a bit excited, but making assumptions as you are doing based on people’s skin colour is the very definition of racial insensitivity.

Griefmonster · 16/08/2020 20:25

@Sakalibre If we put aside the topic for now (although it is very relevant this was about racism and BLM, it seems it is causing some distractions in the responses).

You attended a presentation at work, there was a (presumably?) open floor Q&A after, you raised an issue with the presentation and have been disciplined for sharing this view.

That alone I find unsettling from a manager and if you you plan to raise it, you may need to approach from a more neutral angle. Along the lines of...

"I have bee reflecting on our exchange last week and I feel uncomfortable/confused about how I should approach these situations in the future. I would be really grateful if we could talk about this more so I can better understand expected behaviour/company policy for my career development."

In a way you then give space for a broader conversation where you can find out more about what went wrong and how much was genuine inappropriate behaviour on your part and how much was defensive/over zealous or even discriminatory behaviour on your manager's part. The goal is to get curious about process and boundaries not justify your position (yet).

If he's unable to spell out what you did wrong then it will become clear pretty quickly he has crossed a line. He will either realise this himself and apologise (more likely back track and cover his arse) or you may need to take it further if he has singled you out for talking out...

Main thing is , maintain the high ground, keep cool and stay curious not defensive (a lot harder than it sounds but will serve you well)

ItsNotAboutTheChocolate · 16/08/2020 20:25

Completely inappropriate for a white person to decide the views of a brown person on racism are worth a telling-off. Entitlement and privilege.

OldBean2 · 16/08/2020 20:30

OP, I totally understand why you would feel unhappy, the way this is presented sounds very unthinking and your views are understandable.

Unfortunately your manager has had a knee jerk reaction but has not considered that this reaction is racist. If you wanted to take this further or wanting to talk to him, I suggest that you tell him to take a look at the MacPherson report as you consider his "chat" with you to be racist, you may well take this further with HR unless you, or you are able to set up a BAME network to feed into any future training.

AncientRainbowABC · 16/08/2020 20:34

curious not defensive

^^yes, this, so much this.

Sakalibre · 16/08/2020 20:35

Bluntness100 - I think you're reaching and I find it fairly annoying that you attempt to discredit me on account of my age.

I simply said I have a unique perspective due to being the only non-white person in a team of 15. My experiences will be unique to the white men in my team. That is just a fact.

OP posts:
Sakalibre · 16/08/2020 20:38

I really appreciate all the advice I'm being given :)

Thank YOu

OP posts:
Notfeelinggreattoday · 16/08/2020 20:39

Maybe brown people dont have the same experience as black people maybe some black people don't have the same experience as another black person so what is the point of saying this , people will have different experiences .
Racism is racism regardless

Notfeelinggreattoday · 16/08/2020 20:43

And op i don't see why your feelings are not ok to voice , your experience and how you feel is valid as much as anyone else's

Livelovebehappy · 16/08/2020 20:43

This is the problem. You have to over think and analyse everything you are about to say. We have just introduced meetings at work to discuss racism in the workplace. Colleagues had to put their names forward if they wanted to attend. All attendees were BAME, and the rest of us got berated for not wanting to attend. But people just don’t want to invite drama on themselves by saying the wrong thing, so just chose not to attend.

Aridane · 16/08/2020 21:04

I agree with @Bluntness100 - she manages to explain the nuances Of what isn’t quite right with the OP’s (admittedly very vague) account of events

jewel1968 · 16/08/2020 21:07

Agree curious rather than defensive but ultimately be professional. Also if you put it in writing you can be very careful about how you phrase it. Understand your dad's position in that he is looking out for you but if you tackle this well you may actually be in a better position than if you say nothing.

I have black friends and they all have different views on the workplace response to BLM. Some hate it and feel very uncomfortable with the whole thing for lots of reasons. Their views have been respected. Good luck.

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 16/08/2020 21:36

The presentation started off as an info pack put together by 2 white male grads, 1 white female and 1 Indian male grad.

Criticising a presentation made by the other graduates in front of your team wasn't a good idea. That would upset your line manager in itself. Your feelings about being presented as a victim may be valid but then going on to say that other non-white people would be offended was taking it too far and saying it was "just your opinion" didn't justify or explain it.

I was wondering, why didn't you get to contribute to the presentation? Were you invited to join in making the pack?

some of the people involved just used this an opportunity to be "seen" as most of them have form for being overly competitive and sycophantic.

Don't let your boss know you think so!

You need to learn how to give positive criticism even for things that you strongly and personally about. Something like "They could have put in more about ways that BAME people resist racism at work, we're not just victims, for example ..." As TheProvincialLady says there are ways to put these things across.

lakesidesummer · 16/08/2020 21:46

You have every right to hold an individual view OP based on your own experiences.

However most Equal OP's stuff in companies is nothing more than box ticking, virtue signaling ( I say this as someone with an invisible disability)

People don't want to be made to feel they have got their virtue signaling wrong and many people don't want to listen to anything other than the current top idea in the particular field.

I learned a long time ago that when it comes to this kind of training all the trainers are looking for is nodding dogs.

AnaadiNitya · 16/08/2020 21:58

@Sakalibre

Bluntness100 - I think you're reaching and I find it fairly annoying that you attempt to discredit me on account of my age.

I simply said I have a unique perspective due to being the only non-white person in a team of 15. My experiences will be unique to the white men in my team. That is just a fact.

Yeah Bluntness tries to discredit everyone. Don’t take it personally it’s just how they post. Best to ignore tbh
hammeringinmyhead · 16/08/2020 22:04

@AmaryllisNightAndDay

The presentation started off as an info pack put together by 2 white male grads, 1 white female and 1 Indian male grad.

Criticising a presentation made by the other graduates in front of your team wasn't a good idea. That would upset your line manager in itself. Your feelings about being presented as a victim may be valid but then going on to say that other non-white people would be offended was taking it too far and saying it was "just your opinion" didn't justify or explain it.

I was wondering, why didn't you get to contribute to the presentation? Were you invited to join in making the pack?

some of the people involved just used this an opportunity to be "seen" as most of them have form for being overly competitive and sycophantic.

Don't let your boss know you think so!

You need to learn how to give positive criticism even for things that you strongly and personally about. Something like "They could have put in more about ways that BAME people resist racism at work, we're not just victims, for example ..." As TheProvincialLady says there are ways to put these things across.

All of this. We're not talking about a uni seminar here in which a lively, possibly confrontational debate is encouraged. In the type of company that offers grad schemes, if I disagreed with the content because of my own personal feelings I would have expressed that to my manager afterwards. I just wouldn't criticise someone's presentation, at the end of it, while in front of peers.